Proposal: Bar illegal immigrants from collecting comp
July 21, 2009 by Fred HosierPosted in: In this week's e-newsletter, Latest News & Views, Workers' comp, cost of safety
In most cases when an illegal immigrant is injured at a U.S. company, courts have ruled in favor of giving workers’ comp benefits. One state is trying to put a stop to that.
South Carolina legislators have introduced a bill that would bar illegal immigrants from collecting disability benefits when they’re hurt on the job.
State Sen. Tom Davis (R) said there’s a lot of frustration that illegal immigrants enjoy public benefits to the same extent as citizens or immigrants with proper paperwork.
However, Sen. Brad Hutto (D) feared that doctors and hospitals would be left with unpaid bills if this legislation is passed.
Diana Salazar, president of the Latino Association of Charleston said it’s unfair that these illegal immigrants can care for children, build houses and hold other jobs but not get benefits if they’re hurt on the job.
The state senate committee considering the bill set it aside for the time being to collect more testimony.
Should illegal immigrants get workers’ comp if they’re hurt on the job? Let us know what you think in the Comments Box below.
Tags: illegal immigrants, injured, legislation, South Carolina, Workers' comp
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February 23rd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. They should not be paid government funds under any circumstances, for any reason. When discovered they should be subjected to the same punishment an illegal alien would suffer in their country of origin.
“it’s unfair that these illegal immigrants can care for children, build houses and hold other jobs but not get benefits if they’re hurt on the job.” I agree: they should be prohibited from doing those things as well. Oh, wait: they ARE prohibited from doing those things…
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Illegal immigrants should not enjoy the same benefits as citizens and legal immigrants. American taxpayers have too many of their tax dollars spent on undeserving recipients. America has always welcomed immigrants - everyone in America can look back through their family trees to people who immigrated to America - legally. Immigrants who do not have legal status should not enjoy the privileges of those who are legal. Legal immigrants have gone through the process and are trying to become citizens, whereas illegals are trying to get benefits that are not rightfully theirs. Why should the American taxpayer pay for programs benefitting illegals? Control over how our tax dollars are spent has to start somewhere, and entitlements to undeserving recipients must stop.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
“Illegal” is the operative word. They should not even be hired on, much less entitled to “any” benefits.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
I guess the question should be “why are illegal immigrants working in the first place”? I thought there was a system in place to prevent this.
If an employer knowing hires an illegal immigrant than I would think they would need to be accountable for their safety. If someone lied in order to gain employment than they should be allowed anything beyond medical needs.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
If they are on the payroll - paying taxes - and have been with the company 6 mo’s or longer - the right thing to do is treat them as an human - they would get comp too. If not on the payroll or not paying taxes then they are at their own risk. But, for a major accident not of their fault - they should still recieve some type of compensation. It is the correct thing to do.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Key word here is “illegal”, they should not be working in the first place, they need to be deported, we have enough drain on the SS system without people who don’t contribute drawing off of it.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
If they are in the country illegally then NO. There should be a law in place that if an employer hires them anyway, then that employer is to pay for their injuries out of their own monies.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Ms. Salazar has to realize that illegal immigrants may not “…care for children, build houses and hold other jobs…”
There is a growing frustration in the american workplace about these undocumented workers, and the fact that few, if any are contributing to the programs that ultimately provide their health and well-being. It is difficult to document their safety training, and indeed, they are the shadow workers in America.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
The first portion of Diana Salazar’s comment is accurate; “…it is unfair that these illegal immigrants can care for children, build houses, and hold other jobs…” PERIOD! The rest of her statement is nonsense! Her logic is as flawed as the idea that a burgular can break into your house then sue if he gets injured while commiting an illegal act. Yes, this has happened, but should NOT be a precedent for other stupidity.
When are we as a nation going to wake up and start rewarding GOOD behavior instead of rewarding BAD and PUNISHING good behavior.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I do not think they should be eligible for benefits. I am under the beliefs that if they are in the US illegally, they should not get any benefits what so ever. They can be come legal citizens like the rest of us.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
I am in total agreement with Senator Tom Davis. Employees can loose 50% of their benifits for not following company policy. Why in the world would benifits be paid to someone doing something illegal?
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Illegal immigrants get worker’s comp? Absolutely not. The important word here is illegal. They are not citizens and they have no work permit. They came here illegally. They obtained a job here illegally. Reward them for it…..crazy. Give them a one ticket back to where they came from.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 pm
No they are illegal. If they are injured treat them and return them to their own country. The time has come for the US taxpayer to stop footing the bill for those that are not here legally.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I believe “illegal” mean no benefits once the status has been discovered. The employer should not hire illegally, knowingly, however that does not mean that the taxpayers should pay out for benefits of any kind for the illegal alien. I believe in humanitarian aid as in only whatever emergency medical aid is necessary prior to deportation.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
NO benefits should be given, if the employer knowingly hired them they should be prosecuted also. In the current job market we should discourage, in any way possible, the hiring of illegal’s
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
“Sen. Brad Hutto (D) feared that doctors and hospitals would be left with unpaid bills if this legislation is passed.”
Yes… they are Illegal. No they shouldn’t be working in the first place. The company that hired them should pay a fine for hiring them, pay the medical costs (Not insurance paying, but the company itself), and once they are well enough, send the ‘Undocumented worker’ back to their country of origin. No unpaid bills to be worrying about, and with any luck, some deterrence for employers to hire illegals.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pm
There should not even be a debate. If they are illegal, they should be deported when caught. They shouldn’t receive the benefits we are entitled too. If they are working here illegally, than they are not paying taxes and contirbuting to workers comp, at least not under their real name.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:43 pm
There are already laws to limit them from gaining access to public programs. It is not new by any means, though seems to be little known now days. It is called Federal Immigration law, which simply requires that anyone wishing to enter the country with the intent to visit, work and/or become a citizen, must have a proper visa or “Green Card” and associated documents. The fact that they CAN purchase a house, go to public schools and get a job, all without the proper documentation, indicates that these laws are not being enforced and therfore encourages others to follow. It boils down to greed on the part of the employers who want inexpensive labor and complacency on the part of law enforcement entities whose job it is to enforce the laws and instead turn a blind eye to the situation. With all the technology at our disposal it should be relatively simple to locate violators (Employers) and prosecute. If they can’t find employment, they won’t come here without legal sponsorship.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:47 pm
If the employer had to pay the full dollar ammount (without insurance), the hiring of the illegal would become less attractive. Make it illegal to insure “undocumented” people and make the employer fully liable for the medical costs. Then detain and deport (Charge the employer the fees to deport). The reason they are here is someone will hire them.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Absolutely no workers comp. They are here elligally. I agree that they should receive medical care just the once but along with that health care providers or employers should also alert government agencies of the employees illegal status so that the necessary action can be taken. This should also apply to welfare, social security, etc.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Good companies do everything that they can within the law to ensure that the persons they hire are of legal status. If an illegal immigrant slips in despite the best efforts of the company, then NO I do not think that they are eligible for benefits. Corporate America are not the bad guys. They keep the majority of us employed and are finding it harder and harder to stay in business because lawmakers with nothing better to do are making the jump to Socialism too early and trampling all over capitalism and freedom that was hard won and must be duly EARNED in order to enjoy.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Illegal immagrants should get health care but at the expense of the employer; and then deported if possible.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
If they are illegal they should not have been hired in the first place. If they have been then shame on the company. They should foot the bill and keep everyone else out of it.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
The game here with the wacked out liberal element is they are doing whatever they can to inflict the curse of lazy socialism upon this country - and by allowing persons (illegal aliens and their employers too) who have committed crimes to benefit financially is nothing more than an incentive program to ensure further illegal “migration” to this country.
Ultimately the end game here is to see another 50 million illegal aliens and their families occupying jobs once held by legitimate American Workers because these persons will ultimately find their way into the voting booths and labor unions and vote to support the Democratic Party that has been hijacked by persons who openly call the American people “cowards”.
The demise of the two party system will ensure that a “leader for life” will be installed similar to our good friends in Venezuala at which time we will have reached the utopian socialist/marxist statehood. Heck stupid teens and 20 somethings are already calling themselves marxist/socialists online!
No benefits, keep the ICE raids going and fine/jail the employers who contribute to this exploitative situation….does the history of the Roman Empire’s demise ring a bell?
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
illegal - that’s the only word you need to hear, illegal immigrants shouldn’t have a job, illegal immigrants shouldn’t be building houses, illegal immigrants shouldn’t be caring for children. I would ask if an illegal immigrant has a job and is paying taxes how did the illegal immigrant get a social security number??? That’s another ball of wax!
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
C’mon now! Let’s be realistic! The American people need help. The illegals should be sent back…oh, not even be allowed in our country. For Pete’s Sake! What is wrong with the U.S.? Please concentrate on American people getting the help they need especially in these hard times. The illegal immigrants need to go back to where they came from. Period! The end!
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
They should not get benefits. However their bills should be paid for by the company that hired the illegal in the first place. Then once they have healed, the hiring company should also pay for the ride home to their own country.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
I guess, so far, the above comments should give the senate committee the answer they are looking for. Stop sitting on the bill (or fence should I say) and get the ball rolling in the direction that it obviously should be going. Sometimes too much time is spent “discussing” issues instead of taking action! If they are illegal, then most likely they are not paying taxes (WC is paid entirely by the employer anyhow). This is akin to driving a car with a suspended license and getting into an accident. Your auto insurance will refuse to cover you as you should not have been driving in the first place (it is ILLEGAL to drive without a valid license.) Therefore, if you are illegal you do not qualify for the compensation.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Of course illegals should NOT be allowed to collect any benefits. if a robber breaks into your house to steal your stuff and trips and falls and breaks his leg, are you responsible for his injuries? No Way. and if Doctors treat these people and they don’t have money or insurance, have them call INS BEFORE they start treatment. one of two of these people being deported will send a message and these illegals will either find somewhere that they can live off the American Taxpayers, or they will go back home where they belong.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
ILLEGAL……that word says it all……you want bennies?….
come here and do it the RIGHT way, my great grand parents did, even were made to change their name ’cause it was TOO ethnic..WTF?>>>
I think if more states..CALIFORNIA…did this we would all realize how much money we were actually saving.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
You want to know how illegal aliens work in our country? They usually illegally buy social security numbers. Since the numbers are already in use by people like you and me, the extra SS, unemployment and other taxes are put into the pot. The feds see the extra employment taxes and say nothing because it’s extra money that doesn’t go to the legal taxpayer. If you are in a place like Atlanta where illegal aliens abound, you’ve surely noticed all the foreign only language signs on a multitude of businesses. Some of those places sell documents to illegals. Not enough done in our country to stop it because it makes too much money. It’s sad to say but we are really dependent on illegals now for cheap labor. And they spend alot of their money on everything including houses, cars, big screen TV’s, clothes, food etc. A fix will be expensive in the short and long term.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
What part of Illegal do we not understand nowadays?? Being here illegally is a slap in the face to all the imigrants that have come to America and had to do so legally. Why is it so important for criminals to have rights they do not deserve because they haven’t earned them?
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Banning them from recieving benefits would be one more peice of encouragement for employers to hire them- lower wages, no benefits, and hey now we don’t even have to keep them safe. Everyone wins! This idea would put even more Americans out of work because the illegal get that much more valuable. No easy answers- too bad our legal system doesn’t work on common sense and treat these things case by case fairly.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Oh my gosh, I’ve had a 20+ yr career in law enforcement and was stressed out after the first 7 or so. This all because my complete shock as to our country’s liberal attitude as it relates to criminals and rights of criminals. All ILLEGAL immigrants are indeed criminals. People who hire them should be prosecuted and fined as well as the illegals being shipped back. When is the country going to learn that we have our own problems to take care of let alone illegals bleeding us for benefits and/or coming to our country and having a child, which is now our responsiblity to pay for. The older I get the more I realize that this country is heading deeper into the endless hole. The liberals of this country think that we can take care of everyone elses problems, and the ones we can’t, we should give them money. Illegal immigrants should have no rights and you liberals should knock off that “its not fair crap”. We have a system in place for those who wish to become AMERICANS and you can see that every year as hundreds, if not thousands, do it LEGALLY.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
The main question is not if they are illegal or not. But rather, why are they working if they are illegal? For a company to knowingly hire illegal immigrants because of cheap labor, then they should have to provide for that employee’s safety and compensation. Why should that illegal immigrant be chastised because the company did not ensure they were operating in a safe manner. Is that how they treat all employees or is it just the illegal immigrants? And if it is just the illegal immigrants, are their lives not as valuable as the other employees. If their lives are not as worthy, then why are they employed by your establishment? Oh I forgot - cheap labor. An excuse of - a language barrier inhibited training or they were told to follow what everyone else did - is not a plausible defense. What are we saying when we deny that employee benefits but the company gets off without a scratch? Do we tell the company ‘good job. Why don’t you hire some more and put them in a dangerous situation to get hurt. We can then call it IMMIGRATION CONTROL.’
On the other hand, if the employee provided false documents to get the job, then by all means that employee should not be entitled to any benefits.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm
WOW! I wholeheartedly agree with all of you! So why can’t we send our opinions to these Senators and Congressmen to let them know. I have even seen news articles that we are having increased crime in my area and the cops are saying they are not allowed to enforce the immigration laws - more of the “don’t ask don’t tell”. we need to make things tougher on the illegals and cut off the entitlements - then it won’t be so attractive to come anymore.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Well, if the undocumented resident worker uses my SS for a job and is injured, I think I should get the benefits!
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I think that the definition of illegal should hold its own merit, unfortunatly the panty wasted, liberal , everyone should feel good polititions are afraid to stand up for the law abiding taxpayers of this country and put a stop to abuse of our system by illegal imigrants. America may be a melting pot but our predisessors came here legaly and abided by the rules, this new breed of illegals just does not get it.My Grandparents entered this country applied for and gained citizenship the legal way, they worked, paid taxes and lived within the laws. If you are working in this country illegaly you should not be entitled to any benefits awarded to legal tax paying citizens. If you want to become a citizen then apply like you should otherwise get the hell out and go ruin your own country,and take your kids with you , if they were born here “illegaly” then when they become adults they can decide what country they want to live in. I think it is time or tea in the harbor again and if our government doesn’t see the need to make some drastic changes they all deserve what is comming to them.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
The new administration in Washington has the answer to all these “petty” impediments (Chuck Schumer)…..free migration, no more enforcement, amnesty, free drivers licenses, health insurance, college, homes and job counseling too! It doesn’t get any better than America!
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I agree with Sharon, If they are on the payroll, they are not only paying taxes, they are also contributing to the company failures or success. Keep in mind also, the company pays inusurance, call it Workers Comp or any other form of private insurance to protect their EMPLOYEES, regarless of ther immigration status. I guess the key word is “EMPLOYEE”
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:29 pm
The employer should be fined and penalized. It used to be -employers would hire illegals because citizens wouldn’t do certian jobs. They way the economy is now there a tons of legal citizens begging for jobs. Send the illegals back where they came from and give the english speaking home grown citizens a chance to survive. Should we pay illegals unemployement too? No way should they get anything but pointed back to the direction they came from.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
No benefits! And a free bus ride home.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 pm
No Benefits — period! It is bad enough that we carry the load of citizens and LEGAL immigrants that are scamming the system, then you throw Illegals in the mix — what part of illegal can’t you understand? Illegals have garnered far too many benefits in the US on the backs of taxpayers as it is. Now it is time to say enough is enough! YOU BROKE THE LAW THE MINUTE YOU CROSSED THE BORDER ILLEGALLY. You are a criminal, it is the plain and simple. You are not working in this country - legally - therefore you do not have a right to be here, or to take any benefit of this country. Send them packing, end of story.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
No, they should not get benefits if they are illegal, but they should get needed treatment for injury (then deported).
Medical costs for job related injuries, as well as sanctions, should be placed on the employer or person that hired the illegal and allowed them to work in the first place.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I agree with Robert 100%.
The illegals should not be working at all. The company that hired them should pay a fine for not checking there back ground or ignoring what they found out. The company should also pay the medicals, not comp. and ship the “illegal” employee back to where they came from. The unemployment rate is going up everyday. These companies should hire their employees from the thousands of legal employees available.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
No: Employment; No: Benefits; NO: worker’s comp. Illegal means illegal and they need to be deported. I am an immigrant myself and I had to pay my way to live here. I have to pay every l0 years. My son is in the Air Force and my daughter works for Dept. Homeland Security, but I am not a citizen. I think it’s time for me to get it done. No benefits for illegals. No jobs for illegals. Double check the paperwork, call Social Security at the time of hiring to confirm the number. If the number is bogus, they’ll tell you. Bogus number means you don’t hire them. There are so many legal residents now and US citizens that are out of work while these illegals with their forged documents are still working. It’s not fair nor is it right.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Illegal is all we need to know here. The govenrment has their hand in everything else except actually doing their job. If people are in the country illegally they should be deported and companies hiring illegal employees should be penalized harshly. That used to be the law and it used to be enforced. It is time to enforce the laws on the books instead of changing laws or giving people free rides when our economy is in a shambles.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I agree with all the above and I don’t understand WHY our legislators don’t understand how we feel. They like to say they are in touch with their constituants, but I have yet to see them stand up for working Americans. So either they are really out of touch, or they just don’t care. Either way, they should not be in office. Persons who support illegals by bellyaching about how difficult life in the country they are in ILLEGALLY is for them should be sent to any country of their choice as long as they do not stay in America. Maybe they will see how “unfair” the U.S. really is.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:51 pm
The natural course of things will be for this situation to escalate to the point of a national revolt by the American people at which time the despot(s) in office that had promoted this calamity will be violently removed like those before them…..we are too far into this escalation of committment to see any reversal at this point…..we seem hell bound to repeat history despite our keen awareness of it. God help us!
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Bar illegal immigrants from collecting comp
The artical is very interesting, why is there a problem. Illegal’s should never be hired. The Company’s should be held responsible not the state or Insurance Company.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Let’s see……..who allows the illegal immigrant to receive compensation? Let’s fix that.
Who allows the illegal immigrant to remain in the United States? Let’s fix that.
Companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants should be fined and made to pay the medical costs of their injured employee.
Companies that unknowingly hire illegal immigrants need to review their policies on hiring. A Social Security card number check should always be done on any employee. If they do not have a valid social security number it will be detected.
All employees in a company pay taxes, i.e. federal withholding, social security, medicare etc. whether they are legal or not. So illegal immigrants do pay taxes and employers pay workmans compensation on all their employees.
It’s interesting that illegal immigrants can buy a social security card, get a job, and pay taxes. The
Government will receive the money and the Social Security Administration will receive the money
and neither of them will notify the employer that the SSN is not valid. Where did the money that was withheld from the paycheck go? It is not always the case that the illegal immigrant is using someone else’s number.
Let’s not make this a complicated issue. People who are not here legally need to be sent back and we need to look at the laws we have so that we are not paying for things that we should not be.
It can be discussed to death….we need to do something about it. It’s pretty attractive to other countries to come here, legally or illegally. We do little to deter it.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
“Illegal” as stated before is the key. The employee is illegally working for an employer that has
illegally hired them. You can not leave even an illegal employee on the floor to die. But. we could
treat them at a Federal facilty, preferably a penal institution and then deport them. Then bill the
employer the employee’s medical care. The IRS has a Federal ID no. for each employer they can’t
dodge the bill for ever. A few hundred thousand in medical bills may offset the cost effectiveness
of hiring illegals.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Shame on you who profess such un-original, un-Christin, Un-American, Un-Professional thoughts. This should be a debate about the issue of the program not a venue for bigotry.
If someone is here illeagly that is an issue that should be delt with according to our laws- defort them.
If someone hires an illegal then they shoudl be delt with. Finded and I think they should pay they cost of the medical bills. That cost shoud be passed on to those who benifit from this illegal behavior. If you bought the house or own stock it shoud come out of your pocket not the compay.
Now if the compay has paid into the workers comp insurance fund then it is a simple contract and the insurance compay has to pay. It would be like renting a car in a foregin country and getting into an accident and the insurance compay does not pay.
If they company is not paying the insurance tax that it woudl take to build a house then they are stealling from the employee the state and person they are providing a service for. They shoud be delt with. Doing the right thing is a matter of fainess. Putting yourself in others shoe. “Do unto others”
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I have been using the ID Checking Guide manuals updated yearly to vett documents provided by workers since the 1980’s and it eliminates (all) the excuses used by employers who claim to have been duped by fake ID. Don’t have them, don’t hire them. Still waiting for a certain elected official to provide his original document - lead by example.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:12 pm
I think the word “illegal” says it all. I was writting this long disertation as to my reasoning, but the more I typed to make a point the more I realized, no one with the power to change it is listening. Too many Lobbyists in their ears.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Look at all of our postings! Clearly these very strong opinions should be forwarded to the senators who care enough to do something about this. Our country is falling apart economically and some people seem to think it’s OK to keep funding people who are here illegally. In the early 90’s there was INS enforcement of the immigration laws and the governement spent money enforcing the laws that are still on the books. If there was law enforcement the employers would be forced to review their hiring practices just as we did back in the 90’s. It worked then, and it could work now. Many employers are hiring illegals based on the INS guidelines that they are not allowed to deviate from without penalties. The current INS & DHS guidelines almost force employers to hire illegals. Employers are NOT supposed to be counterfeit experts now (back in the 90’s you were!) and as long as the documents appear legitimate (and most of them DO) you have to take them.
This discussion should be about LAW ENFORCEMENT - we have the laws - WHY is the government OBAMA) not enforcing them? That’s the real question.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I have relatives that came from another country. How did they get to the U.S.? They stood in lines, filled out forms, learned the language and took citizenship tests. It was long and hard and took several years. Illegals take short-cuts and make the legitimate system much more difficult for legal immigrants.
I remember one occasion when I felt that the person I was processing had provided me with false documents. As the HR guy, I stopped the process until I could verify the documents, which is the responsibility of everyone working in HR. The individual was never able to provide me with verification and very quickly removed himself as a candidate for hire.
Sometimes when companies have no hiring ethics, it becomes HR’s job to draw a line in the sand.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Let’s be politicaly correct - they are not illegal immirants, they are undocumented people. Just like drug dealers are undocumented pharmacists.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:32 pm
If “illegals” are hired and hurt on the job they should be able to sue their “employer” for damages not workers comp.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Any legislator should get this message LOUD and CLEAR!! To borrow an old slogan……Just Say No!
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Taxpayer money should not be spent for illegal aliens, BUT if employers hire these folks then THEY should be held financially responsible for their safety. If the employees aren’t covered by WC, they should be able to sue their employers outside of the WC system…..maybe that will make people think twice about hiring undocumented workers and expecting the taxpayer to foot the bill.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
as HR I was given a ss# by a potential new hire. I ran the back ground check as I do with all applicant that get to the hiring phase before I offer them a job. The SS# and card were fake, the illegal told me he thought we could hire him as long as he had a ss#. Not only did it cost the company money to run the check, it wasted my time. I felt he should have had to at least pay the cost of the back ground check. Of couse I told him why I couldn’t hire him and his response was -please don’t turn me in. He knew he was doing something wrong. Illegals cost money in more ways than people realize. Money that should be concentrated else where.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Again what part of ILLEGAL do we not understand. They should not be here in the first place. Second place they should not be WORKING!!! THEY ARE ILLEGAL!!!!!!! If the companies hire them then let them pay when they are hurt not the imigrants who got here LEGALLY and LEGAL taxpayers.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:07 pm
So, who is going to provide this blog to the Senator from SC? The editor? Or is there someone from that great state online here that might wish to do so? Don’t all volunteer at once….
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
How can this problem be corrected when it is our own Government that encourages this ‘illegal class’ of unemployed by threatening employers with huge fines while at the same time providing State and Federal aid to the illegals. Worker’s Comp is an insurance for hired workers. The policies do not dictate what their citizen status should be. Therefore not only are they privy to this benefit but also are compensated additionaly due to future earning capacity being limited because of their status and lanquage barrier. Confused? This is what I heard from an insurance agent for the reason of a huge settlement. Liberalism over the top!
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:22 pm
No to illegals getting comp. But I do feel alot of you need spelling and punctuation lessons.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm
NO benefits! I also have to disagree with Joe Z. Why should illegal immigrants be allowed to sue their employer? That’s just one more thing that true citizens of the US would have to pay for. Yes, the employer who knowingly hires an illegal should have to pay for any medical expenses incurred by that illegal due to an on the job injury, and then the illegal should be deported. But alas, we all know this will never happen, as the number of “bleeding heart liberals” in our government is so great that it is close to impossible to reverse this trend now. The problem of illegal immigrants is only one of many that our government has allowed to continue to the point that it has greatly affected the country. When people once again are forced to take responsibility for their own actions and quit blaming everyone but themselves, then and only then can this country begin to heal itself and again become a great nation of hardworking LEGAL citizens and immigrants, all working for the good of our country. Remember—a government BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE—not for any freeloader that comes along and wants a handout!
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:28 pm
First of all why are we hiring illegal imigrants in the first place land letting them work. If they are illegal they should not be working. So I think it will then be the employer’s responsibility to care for these people if they get hurt since they hired them knowing they did not have their papers.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Illegals should not receive workers compensation insurance. They probably have already falsafied records to gain a job, and as the Bill states they are here illegally. If an illegal is injured on the job he should collect compensation from the employer, and if they are injured from negligence then they should sue the employer, or any party that was contributed to the incident. This solution may cut down on the hiring of illegal immigrants.
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:06 pm
If you found a way to allow the “illegal immigrants” to work than you have a responsibility to cover them like anybody else you have working within your company! The injury should be documented and investigated like any other injury. If you do not want to cover injuries of “illegal immigrants” than do not hire them! Do a better job of verifying documents! Better yet sign up for E-verify and nip it all in the bud ASAP!
February 23rd, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Mary, I agree with your statement “first of all why are we hiring illegal immigrants in the first place”. It’s not always that a company “finds” a way for an illegal immigrant to work, we have much to blame on programs such as eVerify. This program is one area that a company may use to complete their due diligence when placing or hiring an employee. The program is not reliable and fake documents may be accepted that are very valid looking and pass through a background check too. I don’t think there is a viable solution to cut down on hiring illegal immigrants outside of obtaining a system that is 100% accurate when checking backgrounds, etc. If the employee is hired and is illegal, that is a form of dishonestly on the employee’s fault and falsification of documents. The company should not be held liable!
February 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Someone in an earlier posting asked “Why doesn’t congress do something about this?” I think it’s pretty simple actually. Politicians do what is good for them or they can’t serve their constituents, so THEY say.
The politics of the US have become as corrupt as a third world nation and no longer seek truth and what is right or wrong but how can I get re-elected.
Governors selling senate seats, Republicans and Democrates alike taking kick backs and then investigating the Oil Industry and Wall Street CEOs for receiving bonuses. I don’t much agree with it either but turn about is fair play.
What is also at play is the Domino theory. Illegal immigrants are here not just because they can get employeed here but because our elected officials have allowed a major law to go unenforced for decades. We are safety professionals, what is the real root cause here?
It is common knowledge that our elected officials vote their conscience instead of ours. Why do we allow them to do this?
So! Is it really the immigrants fault they come here to work or ours for allowing our elected officials to escape accountability.
I am against illegal immigration and paying benefits to anyone who doesn’t deserve or worked for them but I/we must take some blame in all this as well.
February 23rd, 2009 at 7:09 pm
As a dairy farmer who milks over 2000 cows, I depend on foreigners for the bulk of our labor force. All START at $10/hour, get health coverage that I pay for and get 10 days paid vacation/year. We do not get Americans looking for jobs on our dairy. Talking to many other people with farms, whether it’s livestock, dairy or friuit and vegetable growers, we are all in the same boat. Americans just don’t come looking for the ag jobs we need done every day! I myself pay a hefty premium for work comp coverage every year, so why shouldn’t my employees, be they legal or illegal, not be covered for an injury on my farm? The last thing we need is for insurance companies to start investigating every injured employee to see if they are legal or not. I admit our immigration system is messed up. The one thing I need is a year round workforce and the H2-A program does not allow dairy to aquire foreign workers because we are not seasonal. AgJobs is what needs to be passed in Congress in order for dairy farmers to get the labor they need.
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Illegals should receive nothing from Local, State or National governments. If they are illegally employed the person of company the employed them should stand the entire cost of their injury prior to the illegal being deported to their country of origin. The hiring entity should them be fined and or Jailed for the act.
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Way to go everyone… now if we can get this to our legislatures, maybe they’ll take note. I am going to try to forward this blog to my state senator to see if I get a response from him. In these tough times, I want to keep Americans working not illegals.
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:27 pm
NO Benefits. Have the “employer” pay the medical bills & deport fees.
Slap a hefty fine for employing a illegal. We need to put down our foot…..NO MEANS NO… If you don’t have a green card…..GET OUT!!!!!
February 24th, 2009 at 9:58 am
I must in fact sympathize with Darren as I fully understand his plight for reasons I cannot disclose.
It would appear that those willing to work and then return to Mexico, El Salvador, etc. should be allowed to do so but they should be properly documented. Modify the law but only after the system is in place to address the increase in applications. If they screw up while here - send them back.
Unfortunately Houston, NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago and other sanctuary cities actually prohibit police from notifying ICE when they arrest an illegal or even have valuable information about them - in fact any officer who reports such information in LA County is dismissed. OilSafetyMgr got that right too!
Not a day goes by where we don’t hear of another kidnapping for ransom in Phoenix (like 362 last year?) or a murder by a violent illegal gang banger. Imagine Phoenix Arizone, the kidnapping capital of the USA and maybe the world……third world country is what we have become.
February 24th, 2009 at 10:11 am
The only problem with having a farm run completely by immigrants is that eventually they will own the farm and kick the farmer out.
You don’t actually think these people want to pick beans and shovel crap the rest of their lives do you?
February 24th, 2009 at 10:47 am
I want illegals, undocumented workers or whatever you want to call them out not to receive bennies and deported of the country. No other country allows illegals in their country like we do. In fact, try walking into mexico and see what happens to you. Anyway, practically speaking, I don’t want to do the work that they do except for the plant and construction jobs. They do alot of the seasonal agricultural work and other hard labor that most Americans couldn’t pay rent to do. They do it by living 10-15 deep in a three-bedroom house. The real question is can we afford not to have them here working so cheap.
February 24th, 2009 at 11:46 am
It is disingenuous to believe that employers hire individuals without knowing that they are “illegal”.
If they are injured on the job and found to be “illegal”, the employer should pay all costs out of their own pocket. Employers have been benefiting from the low wages being paid to these individuals, hence they should also shoulder the social burden of taking care of them in the event of injury. Now that the individual has been discovered as ‘illegal’ all due diligence is required on the employers part to notify US Homeland Security - Divison of Immigration; Customs; Border Protection, etc. Identity thefy runs rampant within the “illegal immigrant” community and to aid those victims of this crime through the idenification of sources, contacts, etc aids in the fight on this front. As cruel as it sounds, deportation of the “injured illegal immigrant” and his/her entire family must be considered as a deterrent. The other option is the Bush Administration’s immigration plan for phased-in citizenship, once they have been identified and are now being tracked by HSD.
February 24th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Well, I would contact mine but he considers all of us here on this blog as simply members of the “chattering class” per his outlandish self serving statements on TV this week - Pompous Narcissist!
February 24th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I am getting tired of reading the comments from the folks who obviously do not know much about the I9 requirements for the employer. You are required to accept documents that appear genuine and if you don’t the ACLU and other charming lawyers are very willing to sue you for a contingency fee (free to the illegal). The everify system as others have pointed out do NOT discover the fake documents or fraud. Even the ICE raids found illegals where companies had used the everify system on every hire.
Again I ask what do we not understand about the word illegal? Why do we bother having laws that we allow to be broken? Why do we allow illegals to gain benefits from our taxpayers when our country is going broke? We were able to get the system working in the 1990’s - we were allowed to fire people and not hire people who were found to be illegal. Now we have to be very careful not to “discriminate” or not give the “illegal” every chance to prove he must be legal by allowing him to go out and get new documents to replace the ones that are obvioulsy fake.
Look at Arizona’s workers’ compensation system. It works.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
OK everyone - Jump on the band wagon with me. I have sent a link to my local representative. I have enclosed a link so everyone who wants to take some action - follow the link and write your rep and tell them what you think - and even send them a link to this blog. Maybe if enough States get wind of this - who knows. But yes as long as politicians and constituents can vote themselves entitlements that they don’t have to pay for and put it on the backs of others - they will do so. Read Alexis de Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America” it is quite enlightening - even though it was written in 1832. We are doomed to repeat!
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
February 24th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
PEOPLE who are in this country illegally are still PEOPLE. So please treat everyone with the same respect. Stop pretending they are the same type of criminals that you see on America’s Most Wanted. Most immigrants just want the opportunity to have a better life for their family, and will contribute to society in any way they can. Stop looking at everything in black and white, because it isn’t that simple. And for all of you who are misinformed, 90% of the people who are in this country illegally, still pay taxes, just like everyone else. This should give them the abililty to get benefits they are paying for out of their own check in case they are injured. Why not, they are paying for it. In an ideal world, it would be as easy as ” well, just stand in line and apply for citizenship and get your papers the “right” way”, but it is NEVER that simple and sometimes nearly impossible. So have some compasion for another human being and be a little more sensitive.
February 24th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Thank you Vivien.
To penalize an employer for following the rules on I9 documentation is not going to help this problem. We found three employees last year who were working for a full year before we were informed by an anonomous tip that they were here illegally. We paid workers compensation and all required taxes during their time with us. If they had been injured on the job, we would have submitted the claims to work comp because we had no idea they were here illegally. Once we found out they were in here illegally, we gave them the chance to present new legal documents. They could not and were terminated.
If you can prove an employer knowingly hires illegal aliens, penalize the company. For those of us who follow the I9 requirements and unknowingly employee illegal aliens, give us the benefit of the doubt.
February 24th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I don’t believe that anyone who is a proponent for illegal immigrants to stay here and collect benefits has a clue of the extent of the consequenses to these actions.
The Estimates Are In: There are an estimated 31 million immigrants living in the US today. The total estimate legal immigrants are 19.6 million and the total estimated population of illegal immigrants is 11.6 million. California and Texas are the leading states with 2.8 and 1.6 million immigrants respectively.
That’s the overall picture but it gets worse. Illegal immigrants that come into this country are able to draw the same benefits, wellface, medicare, SS, food stamps, medical care, etc. that we all do. Except for the fact that I have been paying taxes for 37 years but my illegal counterparts may not have paid any at all or very little in the scheme of things but are afforded the same treatment none the less.
So! I pay in SS taxes for 37 years and get injured to the point that I have to draw. I am fully paid up to date, the generation before me has put into the system even though it is not enough. Now the illegal immigrant comes into the picture with the same scenario, draws a SS check that he/she has not paid enough into, gets food stamps that again they have not paid into, get medical care that we as taxpayers fund the burden becasue they either don’t make enough money and receive free care are just skip out because HEY they are undocumented, what are the hospitals going to do? Put it on their credit report.
Come on. Illegal immigration is COSTING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BILLIONS! It is estimated by the Huddle Study that the cost was $33 Billion in 1996 but in todays market would be $70 Billion.
Who are the proponents of illegal immigration kidding. If you want them to stay then why don’t you stop sending your donations to Uganda and other parts of the world and send it to your local hospitals to cover the cost of the gazillion babies they are having because they also don’t believe in birth control.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:29 am
If a company knowingly hires an illegal and that person gets hurt at work he should receive workers comp…at the full expense of the employer. If a company unknowingly hires an illegal, and they went to reasonable lengths to verify citizenship, that person should not be eligible for comp. In addition, if a company hires illegals they should be heavily fined. If they repeat the offense, their business license should be rescinded.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:35 am
One more thing. Any employer who finds out they accidently hired an illegal should call the authorities first and then terminte them. Also “insensitive” have compasion for us American citizens who cannot find work because of those illegals are taking our (by rights) jobs.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:33 am
It is my belief that the person who hires an illigal imigrant should be held responsible for their medical bills, as well as being subjected to fines and punishment for incouraging/performing illegal activities. It is not the imigrants fault the employer didn’t send him on down the road as he should have.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:40 am
ms insensitive is speaking from naiveté and is assuming we al just came out from under a rock and will fall for that old sing song about how “insensitive” we are…what are you next going to call us all “racists” now too? This is criminal activity run rampant and our representatives are living in seculusion and isolated from the situation. Some are not leaders and have little backbone to stand up for what is right because they are looking out for their golden pension themselves not acting selflessly as public servants.
So I guess we should not expect our wished be met since those who were “elected” based on their promise to “serve” have themselves misled us - much like the illegals ans their employers. The situation is now beyond “out of control”. Our reps will find all the messages we sent them simply annoying or amusing. Find one with the stones to take action…..wouldn’t that be a surprise.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:51 am
If they work in this country, and help the manufacturers with low labor cost, they need to be considerated like big contribution to our economy. They should be cover under the Workers Compensation Act and receive all the benefits.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:49 am
I’ll say again. Employers who come across illegals should call the authorities right away to have them deported, after they get all their info.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Hey, Jaun Carlos, if they’re illegal I think not.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Maybe some facts can be had at the Coalition for the Future American Worker website found at
http://www.americanworker.org/l
Send the link to your friends - liberal and conservative alike. Listening Juan?
February 25th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Suggest reading about the Agriprocessors case. The NY Times has a well written article on the abuses of both “illegal immigrant’ workers and “underage” workers. There are employers out there that abuse the sub-culture system of “illegal immigration”. As safety professionals we need to strongly denounce this practice of abuse for profit. If employers want to plead innocent because they did their due diligence in hiring and checking the I9’s and verifying etc…fine. I believe that “illegals” using stolen SSNs to gain employment and set-up house in the US is definitley not a victimless crime. Anyone who has been a victim of identity theft knows that this now runs rampant through our society and the ripple effect is tremendous.
February 25th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
We don’t have an illegal immigrant problem in this country. We have an illegal employer problem.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Hey Juan the operative word here is ILLEGAL!!!! What happens if we go to your country and do somthing illegal? Do you give us benifets????
February 26th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Last comment is very ture. If employers did not hire illegal aliens there wouldn’t be any need for additional legislation. If we only enforced the laws we already have things would be different. I had a client that paid the ultimate price, he was forced to settle a WC case while the employee was living already in mexico. Paid almot 100k to settle the claim. It’s like winning the lotto for these people and it’s not fare. It also comes down to personal ethics. I for one would never work for an emplyer or a client that would ask me to break the law. No matter how much the pay. We need more people with caracter not greed. Jo Meza
February 26th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Only idiotic racist people would say “NO” to helping an injured worker. If it was your mothers or fathers i bet your idealogy would be much different. Please shut up and let the “Racist” legislators sort this mess out. Hum, I wonder how this decision will turn out.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Wow… actually you may have a point, “racist” and “sexist” (ms. insensitive), because now you are assuming I am a woman… good job at proving my point… some people are just ignorant.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
By the way that was a comment for Mr. Safety guy 2….
February 27th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Glad to have inspired your outrage and bring out your innermost feelings. That’s the only reason I commented…just to through gas on the fire, piss you off and flesh out the libs.
Thanks for making it so easy.
You can’t affect change in this area and never will. Go back to work - there are plenty of people counting on your working so they don’t have to.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Insensitive: I will purchase a ticket to Mexico and you can go in ILLEGALLY and see if they treat you with respect and compassion. I DON’T THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN.
All we are saying is come in apply for leagal papers become a citizen and then you can have the benifits that are suppose to be afforded to all (and pay close attention to this) LEGAL CITIZENS!!!!! It is not racism to withold benifits from ILLEGALS. On the other hand it is PREJUDICE to allow ILLEGALS rights and benifits that legal immigrants had to earn by becomming a citizen FIRST.
AGAIN IT IS NOT RACIST TO DENY ILLEGALS RIGHTS THEY DID NOT EARN!!!THEY ARE CRIMMINALS!!! GOOGLE WEBSTER AND LOOK UP ILLEGAL. WHILE YOU ARE AT IT LOOK UP RACIST.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Mr. Safety 2, what a class act…”Glad to have inspired your outrage and bring out your innermost feelings. That’s the only reason I commented…just to through gas on the fire, piss you off and flesh out the libs. Thanks for making it so easy”.
Sorry to disappoint you, but people like you do not affect me in the least, you are predictable and ignorant, and truthfully i feel sorry for you.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
The fact is current economic status is due to the way things ARE. We need to change and embrace new venues. As a country we first have to take care of our own. (Henry Villa) I have a lot of relatives in Mexico but they have never had the need to invade another country and exploit it, because they work hard and thrive no matter where they are.
Safety Guy, don’t let it get you down. Something has to be done about WC keep inspiring.
Jo
February 27th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
One more comment. If any of us (I have) go to work in Mexico and try to file a WC claim YOU CAN’T unless you are a Natural Born Citizen of Mexico. I worked as an HR Director and I knew unless employees had a “Credencial de Elector” (Registered Voter Card) they could not be enrolled or be covered in the WC policy.
My biggest surprise came when I tried to open a bank account..I couldn’t. You can’t open a bank account in Mexico if you are not a Mexican born citizen or have dual nationality. I worked in Mexico five years at Distribuidora CMS Sa de Cv (Zacatecas). As an American Citizen working abroad I had no LEGAL RIGHTS. I could not open a bank account even if I had the money on my hand (2000 dollars) no bank will open an account if you don’t have a “Credendial de elector”. So, why do we (Americans) allow ILLEGALS to have so many rights here????
Also, in order for me to work in Mexico I had to renew my “work-permit” every six months and pay an attorney to do the paperwork. Dying for change….Jo
February 27th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
That pretty much explains why anyone from Mexico would come here or why we wouldn’t or shouldn’t go there.
Oh, and they enforce their southern border more than we enforce ours.
The new president seems to be an honest man versus that two faced lout who preceded him (Fox)
Most excellent point Jo.
Thanks for sharing.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Shrmn8tr- let me make one thing CLEAR to you, I am not saying that people should not “try” and apply for the RIGHT to become a legal citizen. You should. I am saying that sometimes it is nearly an impossible task to achieve. The point I am trying to make is that you should treat ALL people with respect. Regardless if they “Legal” or not. From what I understand, most of you are saying, well if they get hurt, too bad, they are criminals so deport them. That is the message that is coming across. And I find that very disturbing. Because no one deserves that kind of disrespect. Most immigrants work harder than you and I EVERY day of their lives to put food on the table for their families. Most contribute taxes like you and I. So if they get hurt on the job, you can’t simply say, “You are a criminal and thus we will deport you without care”. That is what I find wrong, inhumane and to a certain extent racist. Would you turn your own family mother away if they were hurt no matter the circumstance, no, you wouldn’t. So why would you turn away a PERSON who needs help.
Another thing that surprises me is that a few of you made comments about, “if we were in a foreign country we wouldn’t get benefits and respect, so why should we give benefits and respect to others who come to “OUR” country”. That sounds very childish. We are supposed to set an example for other countries, not follow what everyone else does. What kind of mentality is that?
February 27th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Shrmn8tr- by the way, what is your definition of “EARN”???
February 27th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
insensitive - it’s called “survival of the fittest” the US is not in the condition of being the “benevolent caregiver” for the world anymore. Everyone has to carry their own weight it’s only fare. I am not saying “kick the injured when they are down”, but maybe establishing a separate WC ins funded by Mexico that covers their people so we (the taxpayers) don’t have to.
I think irresponsible Employers as well as the Mexican government should be picking up the expense. If we “bar the illegals now” more change will and compromises.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
insensitive -
Yes we need to set an example - and the example we need to start setting is that our country has certain laws to protect the citizens of this great Nation - and that we uphold the laws…. all of them. Anything less is disrespect to this Nation and what it was founded on. Because we have clouded our judgement and wanted to be compassionate - we have allowed people to break the laws. Then we have created a huge problem in that we are now supporting a vast more people than what are paying - thus breaking the backs of the others. That is not compassionate. And I don’t know where you get your statistics - but 70% of the Nation does not pay Federal taxes - so it is the remaining 30% of the citizens that are paying and paying and paying. Where is the compassion in that? Hospitals are going broke and having to close their doors because undocumented people show up in the ER and we treat them - and they don’t pay. Now the hospitals have to raise prices to compensate or close - is that compassionate??? No it has nothing to do with compassion. It has to do with making the tough decisions to make sure that our great Republic stays financially sound. Yes I understand that there are some people that come here looking for political asylum - but you can’t say that is the case for 10 Million of them, and there are channels available for them.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:52 am
It is always difficult to comment on such a delicate matter. I must first begin by stating that I am disapointed in the lack of humanity that comes across in some comments, even if unintentional. I agree that without rules there can be no order but after reflecting on the matter at hand “workers comp for workers injured” I must speak up. If an individual sacrifices his or her time and energy to work and earn an honest living, then that individual deserves to recieve aid if injured. Especially if that individual is paying taxes to take care of the “Americans” (some of which, I am sad to say are my fellow Americans who could have never lasted a day in the shoes of “those illegals”). If that individual is here without proper authority then that is a problem…..but one for the authorities and our elected officials that we entrust to act on. What makes us American, people, human is that we have theopportunity and blessing of not having to pass judgement and anger onto others for working to improve their lives. I can’t help but to beleive that humanity trumps being American….Sorry “Jo” but anger is not inspiring…..I am sorry that you did not have a welcoming experience in another country but again is the American way to “do as is done to us” or is it to truly inspire and rise above all other expectations and show compassion under all circumstances.
Shrmn8ts….dido for you….and furthermore, you are right….it is not racist to deny those who work and pay taxes their just protection…..it is inhumane and selfish….so which are you…..your choices are not looking too good….
I wish there was a clear answer to please all but even in the mist of misunderstanding I will try to keep my thoughts and heart open to all. I hope that we are ultimately able to learn from eachother and improve ourselves and our wonderful country simultaneously.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 am
Spoken like a true socialist.
Let us have everyone from all over the world come here and we will support them with more of the useless paper money being printed now. As more and more people become unemployed and our government crumbles under the weight of massive entitlement programs for those who have never contributed, the illegal issue will become more violent and there unfortunately be any discussion on blogs.
I have to laugh at the idiocy of people who actually think illegals pay taxes like the rest of us. They don’t do anything like the rest of us when it comes to paying their fair share because they simply are not here to assimilate into our culture - they are here to steal from us. Why else would they raise the Mexican flag on schools in southern California? You can learn more for yourself why when you can find an old history book.
Ask any illegal to produce the last three valid stae and federal tax returns they filed to prove they pay taxes. Can’t, huh? Maybe when they showed you the receipts from the 7/11 convenience store for beer and cigarettes that was good enough for you - but it doesn’t qualify as “paying taxes”.
Heck, the head of the IRS is an arrogant elitist himself who has shown us it is okay to lie on your tax return - so there’s our country’s new role model.
Using stolen social security numbers and stolen identities so illegals can appear on the books is yet another criminal act. Let us reward that too because we “owe” them. We owe no one anything - not even the expensive ride home. No one would show us this courtesy in their country but are arrogant to assume we should? Sounds like another open border advocate…..Patsie.
Tea Party groups are forming all across the country…. people are sick of this and say they are not going to take it….we’ll see.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 am
Unfortunatley it is not acceptable to be in this country illegally, even if you pay taxes and are willinging to work hard. If it were then we would not have the huge immigration problem and sub-culture existing in every major city and even small cities and towns around this country. Paying taxes and working hard one cannot legitimatize ones “illegal” status. I agree that a vast majority of people want to get ahead, provide for their families, have good lives, escape extreme poverty, crime, disease and despair in their home country. Here’s a reminder - We are a country of laws, built upon law and order, and steeped in the blood of our brave men and women to ensure we, as a nation, do not fall into anarchy. Mexico is close to falling into anarchy as demonstrated by the drug wars and murders in the northern regions, just south of the US Border. By subverting the laws you become a criminal, no matter how noble your intent. This gets back to the whole issue of stealing identities in order to attempt to legitimatize ones existence within our society, at the expense of another. We are the greatest nation in the world and we still need to treat the individual with with dignity and respect if injured on the job. Treatment to be paid either by the employer, by the WC carrier, or the taxpayers. The harsh rhetoric we are hearing about not treating injured “illegal” workers does not reflect the empathetic nature that safety professionals must have for their fellow man. If you truly feel we need to deport injured “illegal” workers with no treatment, therapy, rehab, etc, you need to look at your professional code of ethics if you subscribe to any and search your professional soul. If your still feel the same way quit this profession and apply for law school and get into litigation - there is always blood in the water and you can always get your fair share of a fresh carcass.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Thank you, “Change Says:” and “insensitive… Says:” for speaking for the silent Majority.
Reading some of these posts reminds me of a saying a heard somewhere about “when the Germens came for the gypsies, I said nothing … when they came for me there was no one to speak for me.” Many times the spectacle of those on the edge who rant and rave may appear amusing, entertaining and pathetic. The further they are from the norm the less the giant majority pay attention to the insignificant.
So they result to the scare tactics; drugs, crime, taxes, emergency room access any thing that can make the majority feel that somehow something is being taken away from the majority. They jump up and down screaming “pay attention to me” “Those” people are coming to take your jobs, rape the white women, make your kids take drugs, they will break into your house and steal everything and never pay any taxes. They are lazy and only come here to live off your welfare and take food off your kids table. They hag out in the ER so your sick family can’t get medical attention.
If you read or hear something that separates one type of people form another. Look for it. For example when people talk about building a wall and don’t mention the Canadian boarder and the Pacific and Atlantic coast are they really making a plea for security. The people who make this argument are their skin color closer to those on the Northern boarder or the Southern boarder. The terrorist we caught sneaking in explosive were caught coming in from Canada. There are some areas on our Northern boarder where you can cross a street from one country to the next. What terriost in his right mind would cross the desert from Mexico to the US where they risk being robbed, raped and left with no water in a desert?
Jo Says: I am not saying “kick the injured when they are down”, but maybe establishing a separate WC ins funded by Mexico that covers their people so we (the taxpayers) don’t have to.
Really are all illegal’s from one country or maybe they just have a different skin color. Labeling is a step in racism. Always listen for it.
Prejudice is a belief, acting on it is racism. Writing and saying are acts. It does not matter if the person is hiding under white hoods or the anamisity of the internet we must all see it for what it is. A racist act that many have died to protect. We are a country built on great ideals by people who came from other countries to live free. To do that we must guard against those who would even begin to think they could intrud on our neighbor’s freedoms. Somebody once said something like “I might disagree with what you said but I would fight to my death your right to say it” When I was a boy my dad told me my rights end at the tip of my nose. When I passed that on to my son, I added that you can stick you nose in others business but you can’t change what is their freedoms and your might get a bloody nose.
I believe an employee injured on the job must be treated fairly. Joe Ray
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Charity begins at home!!! The US is giving away everything we have to everyone but those who reside here in the good old USA. We have children and families in Appalachia who need food, housing, health care, etc. not to mention all the homeless folks who don’t have food, clothing or shelter. The widows of servicemen and those whose husbands/wives are fighting someone else’s war and getting no assistance from anyone. I’ve been working for 45 years and I’m going to get peanuts for social security because our wonderful Government wants to give my hard earned dollars to illegal immigrants, not to mention they want to give them WC, this is outrageous!!!! We don’t take care of our own, why should we take care of someone else. In addition to this, I had to quit my job when my mother was dying and applied for unemployment and welfare, etc. and no one gave me one single dime or a piece of bread, because I was a white US Born Citizen, and they said I was ineligible. I got nothing!!! The latest being that we here in So. Florida will be receiving 45,000 refugees from Iraq to feed, house and clothe!!! What’s with this stupid government? Charity begins at home. How about taking care of your own. Other countries won’t take care of us. They don’t change their language to accommodate us. They do nothing for us, but take, take and take. They won’t more and more, and even when we can’t afford to give, we do. Some countries hate us, like Indonesia, who was the first to ask for help when they suffered a natural disaster!!! This is dispicable!!!! Take care of the seniors, who can’t afford health care or medicine, the homeless who need shelter, the vets who need so much. Take care of US, the first two letters of USA!!!! If these “Illegal” immigrants want something tell them to go home and get it. Enough is Enough. Russia has the right idea, they’re forming groups of people to get rid of the “illegals” in their country that are taking their jobs, food, shelter, etc. Look at Miami, with all the people out of work, and lots of jobs to be had, but do we AMERICANS get the jobs???? No, they’re given to foreigners. This is soooooooo Unfair. I hope our new President can fix this mess!!!! And fast. Take care of US!!!! Not them!!!
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 pm
This is all a matter of perspective, the idea of right and wrong and having some respect for another human being. Some people put morality above everything else, and most people put themselves (MOST Americans) above everything else. I am sure this is not the first time you have heard the idea that Americans are the most selfish, self indulgent (I, I, I, me, me, me) people on this God given earth, and trust me, it won’t be the last.
As far as I am concerned this was never an argument about having immigration laws and adhering to them. I have no qualms about that. It is about having some sort of soul and moral fiber and not “kicking” out a PERSON who has been injured. But rightfully treating them first and then sending them back to their country. It just seems like your entire view is an us versus them mentality. The comments you make is one that makes “them” the enemy, why does it have to be this way?:
“They don’t do anything like the rest of us when it comes to paying their fair share because they simply are not here to assimilate into our culture - they are here to steal from us. Why else would they raise the Mexican flag”— Safety Guy 2.
Tell me that this comment doesn’t sound racist. It does. And why? Why so much anger? Why is there this underline fear and stereotype about everything and everyone that is not exactly like you are? What are you scared of?
“Maybe when they showed you the receipts from the 7/11 convenience store for beer and cigarettes that was good enough for you - but it doesn’t qualify as “paying taxes”.”— Safety Guy 2.
Why would you make a negative connection and stereotype immigrants with Beer and Cigarettes?? Like all they do is drink beer and smoke cigarettes…. you sound so ignorant and sad.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Nice topic but we are getting some mental patients. Later.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
To Sharon,
I am completely on your side. I like that “US” for USA it sounds very patriotic. Take a tipical home if one of our family members gets injured “we” help him before we help the neighbor…it’s only right.
Did you know in WC you have to be more generous with illegals? Yes, one company had to pay 50k to settle on a WC claim for an illegal that had gone back to Mexico. In order for the Judge to sign the C&R (compromise and release a document used when all parties want to settle a claim) the judge wanted the illegal present. Since that was not possible, we had to send our attorney to Mexico to settle the claim. Attorney said the only way the injured/applicant would settle is if we bought a water pump for his home town. We did and it was expensive. More than any other citizen would get here in the US…..ofcourse.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 pm
In reference to Joe Ray’s reply. This has nothing to to with closing the border, terroism or raping white women. The topic was Worker’s Comp & Illegals. As it states the workers are here illegally and should not have been hired in the first place. If employers want to hire illegals then they should be responsible for THEIR EMPLOYEE. When an employee is injured on the job the employer should handle all the cost involved and not past it along to the insurance company which in turn get past along to all citizens one way or another. An illegal is more likely to be injured then a legal employee due to the nature of the employer who probably doesn’t want to spend time or money on the right equipment and on the proper training involed to do the job or be compliant with any of the standards or codes for the jobs being performed. If the employer was held more accountable in the first place, maybe he wouldn’t of hire an illegal immigrant in the first place.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:08 pm
I agree, we do have some “mental patients” here…
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:36 pm
To insensitive: My definition of “EARN” is go through the process to become legal citizens THE SAME WAY MY ANCESTORS DID TO E A R N THE RIGHT TO BE A CITIZEN. Dont come over illegally and suck our resources dry and expect those of us that did it legally to feel sorry for you when you are caught. Respect our country by learning the language and our laws and abiding by them. I am not saying not treat them for their injuries I am however saying do not pay them the lump sum for a disability they recieved. In other words fixem and sendem home!!!!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
It’s all a matter of perspective….
March 9th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
When you have nothing to contribute just be sure to rationalize all bad behavior as being taken out of context or being a matter of perspective…..the path of least resistance is so the rage nowadays…
Of course if you have squat for morals or standards and want to steal something that you don’t deserve from someone else, then your “perspective” on stealing is that it is “ok” or deserved.
If you worked hard for something like shrmn8tr and want to enjoy it (like, say your own money) and someone is trying to take it - then your “perspective” is that it is wrong and to prevent it from happening.
Yes it is abundantly clear now…..even a moron can make sense once in a while.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Perspective…ok let’s put it in perspective then. Here is an example, a wife (without consulting with her husband) hires a handyman to fix the bathroom he slips, falls, gets hurt. When the husband finds our the unlicensed (illegal) contractor is already in the hospital and does not have insurance. Of course, now the husband (taxpayer) is stuck with all the bills.
The wife feels so sorry for the man and wants to make everyting right again,(the politician in this case Diane Salazar), so she wants her husband to pay not only for the bills, but for the time the poor man is going to be without work (sarcastically). Now the husband is stuck with bills for hospital, TD, PD, and even Vocational rehabiitiation. All for having a dumb wife.
The solution is the wife should have never hired the handyman. The hospital will take care of the ill anyway since there is no other choice. But, why does the husband have to be liable for the job loss, TD, PD an Vocational?
This is what we are doing right now. We are the “husband” we are paying for all services to people that are not doing things legally.
I say, penalize the employers that hire illegal aliens, make them accountable for the medical costs and for the expenses implicated in sending people back to their country of origin, or whatever else they may be liable for.
Citizens and legal residents should be subject to these benefits, but not people are not suppose to.
March 10th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Some additional “perspective”……the E-Verify Program is not going to be renewed in Congress according to the news today -
This will now add even more insult to injury and confirm once again Obama’s alien amnesty goals…by allowing illegal aliens (not “immigrants” which would indicate they documented their entry to the US) to get money from STIMULUS FUNDED PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS!
No restrictions or need to verify you are hiring illegals to work on roadbuilding projects etc…..despite over 100,000 employers being signed up…democrats won’t renew this program, just in time for the roadbuilding season.
How is that for a kick in the ass folks…..are you FINALLY pissed off now?
March 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
So angry…. sooooo sad….
It makes me kind of laugh…
March 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Jo— another “ass”umption on your part and more sexism… but really, what can I expect from people like yourself. Not much.
“All for having a dumb wife. “- Jo.
Wow…
hr 2— How hard is it for you to understand that everything is not black and white? That there are sooo many sides to a story… that not everyone shares your opinion or values…? That it is NOT all about “poor” you (sarcastically). Is this too much for you…? Probably. But that is something you learn in higher education… by taking cultural diversity classes and understanding that you are not the only person in this universe and that you need to be more sensitive and open minded about the world around you. I bet you you weren’t exposed to this kind of education. So how can I truly fault ignorance.
March 12th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Insensitive….go back to work, it’s called a metaphor…
March 16th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I agree with most of the comments. Send the illegals back to whence they came, and DON’T give them WC benefits! My gosh can you imagine the money we’d save as a nation if they actually treated illegals as illegal? I work agriculture and it is getting more difficult every year to find help. This younger generation is so well trained on how to get everything without working and selling drugs is so lucrative anyway why work! Well we probably don’t have to worry for much longer once Obama get his socialism in place because when all the workers have to support the non workers it won’t be long and we’ll have NO workers. One more thing whoever this “Insensitive” is just one of Obama’s kool-aid drinkers.
March 16th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I second Bonnie…
Thanks for speaking up.
March 16th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Motion carried.
Not hard to expose these loons….they usually can’t offer a cogent argument or any value to a debate because of their overriding agenda and when they can’t get their way, they resort to personal attacks - their stock in trade.
Looks like this forum has exhausted the topic with an overwhelming vote against any innappropriate expenditure of long term financial awards or wc benefits to undeserving “illegal” aliens hired “illegally” by unscrupulous/uncaring employers.
No doubt sympathy is waning rapidly for illegals and their plight with all the violence springing up across the country and the resulting chaos and current unemployment.
Hey Fred…..!
March 17th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
hr2, please speak for yourself only. Your opinions and some of the others are in no way, representative of my opinions. Your racist hateful posts are your opinions. How arrogant to think you can speak for everybody. I find your posts very entertaining and amusing. Your logic of attacking “loons” by writing “They” resort to personal attacks-their stock in trade. You use “they or their” six times in the first paragraph. By your own logic that would make you a loom to the sixth power. While pathetically amusing none of this racist rhetoric has anything to do with the article.
My opinion only is that illegal actions should be handled accordingly. That includes hiring practices and not paying all taxes, insurance and minimum pay. I think the consumers who turn a blind eye encourage this behavior and are hypocrites. If you hire a house keeper or lawn worker or buy the cheapest produce that may have been grown or picked by undocumented employees we are just as couple able. When we are willing to pay the highest price for products that are produced only by employees that are paid the highest wage. Then you argument would be free of hypocrisy.
Work comp is not a benefit, privilege or something that is taken from somebody else. It is an obligation to an injured employee hurt on the job because the work site risks were not controlled. The employer is obligated to provide a safe work environment for employees and not use short cuts. The time it takes to hire and train a new employee is just not good for the bottom line. Short cuts are expensive in the long run. Employers pay into the state work comp fund base on their record and it should be if they have a high incident rate they should pay more. But make no mistake it is an insurance policy with the liabilities spread to all employers. Regardless of the employees status an insurance policy must meets its obligations and to lobby politicians to use racism to keep the insurance company from paying out what they own just makes them richer. It’s not like they are going to reduce the rate they charge the employers’. Business is about the bottom line. Politics is about getting re-elected and money is used to get re-elected. We as citizens must put childish behavior aside and educate ourselves on why things happen and what we can do to make things better for all. To all, my apologies for prolonging this post and not coming to the aid of “insensitive” when he/she was the only voice of reason. I congratulate “insensitive” for his/her ability to draw out the out landish opinions of some on this post. Have a great safe day to all of you whether you agree with anything I said or not.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Maybe you best brush up on your insurance facts Joe Ray ….and culpable is indeed a good word.
There you go again using the “R” word….no one mentioned it, inferred it or suggested it…except YOU fella.
Keep speaking in generalities so everyone is confused about your kinder/gentler message nonsense and attack everyone with facts by calling them racist….we get it.
So… speak for YOURSELF.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Haven’t we beat this horse enough? It’s turned into a mud slinging contest.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Don’t make the comments so long and so passonate…it’s hard to read them, lets stick to the topic.
I think we should be talking about the possibility of this solution instead of how we “feel” about the matter. But, it does feel good to get some of the anxiety and frustration out.
I hope something is done, I am with HR-2 nail the unscrupulous employers.
Jo- the referee -
March 30th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Why not have Worker’s Comp pay illegal immigrants? They pay for every other frivolous, unsubstantiated, and fraudulent claim that comes their way. Taking a disputed claim to a hearing officer is a joke at best, that is if you can afford to laugh because it is certainly a waste of money. There is absolutely no accountability. An employee cannot even be expected to walk to and from the job on their own two feet without getting hurt. Any employee who doesn’t want to pay deductibles and co-pays from their own insurance (if they have any), just has to somehow make it in to work and come up with some type of lame situation where they claim that they were injured and Worker’s Comp will pay, pay pay. That’s why they call it “Worker’s Comp”. Therefore, since they give Worker’s Comp basically unquestionably to citizens, what difference does it make if they give it to illegal immigrants? Until the system is changed to run like it was intended, which is to compensate honest people who were actually honestly injured while doing their job, all the other stuff is pretty much mute.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:08 am
of course they should pay. A lot of comments are off topic here. if the employee was hurt at work, then they should be compensated for a workplace injury. It doesn’t matter whether they are illegal or not. Illegal or not, as an employee, he/she should be covered by insurance that the company pays for. If OSHA is involved in an accident investigation, they could give a rat’s arse if the employee was illegal or not.
I’d like to see an employer try that defense, “he was illegal, so he shouldn’t have been working here, it doesn’t count, please withdraw the citation”. Fact of the matter is the employee is just that, an employee performing work for an employer and if he is hurt while performing a job, than they should be compensated.
As far as “public” benefits as stated in the article, I do not know exactly what the means…..State Benefits???? SSI?
May 14th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
The employer should have caught that fact when they were hired but if they didn’t then but it has now came up they should send them back and the company should get fined for not catching it sooner.
June 9th, 2009 at 7:43 am
First let me say that I have first hand experience with undocumented workers trying to work with the government on both sides of the border to change their status.
I am so suprised at how many of my fellow safety professionals are ignorant when it comes to the topic of what undocumented workers pay and don’t pay. While it is true that they may be using another name or Social security card which is a crime and yes it is a crime to come into the country without inspection (illegally). The simple fact is that if they are working in the USA then somewhere a representative of a company made a decision that the documents they provided were valid.
Anyone working in the USA pays taxes, even undocumented workers. Undocumented workers may be paying into a different “account”, but they still pay with each paycheck just like everyone else in the USA who has a valid social security card. It is the responsibility of those of us with valid cards to check with the social security office each year to make sure there aren’t any earning reported on our number that are from a employer that we have not worked for. Think of it this way, if an illegal alien were to use your number, he is paying into your social security account; because he’ll never be able to collect.
As for paying taxes, yes they pay; difference here is they can never collect on any taxes they pay into the state or federal government. I think a better question is WHAT DOES THE GOVERNMENT DO WITH THAT MONEY? I researched it in college, and found out that the money was put into an account for holding. If the numbers of undocumented workers in the USA are accurate there should be a lot of money that has been paid into state and federal taxes that was never claimed by the undocumented workers.
As far as workers’ compensation. If they were hired by our human resource departments and were hurt in our facilities for whatever reason, then we need to treat them as any other worker. I think a better piece of legislation would be to have a law along the lines that if the injury was caused by an act of the worker alone, then the worker should be 100% responsible for the bills on his medical insurance and that employers should require all their workers to carry medical insurance.
Remember, we are supposed to be safety professionals. Lets be informed and not just react.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:14 am
First any employer that hires an illegal should be heavily fined and if the illegal is injured the employer should have to pay all medical expenses, period. As far as the comments about the illegal paying taxes, it is true that they pay into social security however, most oif not all claim so many edpendants that no State nor Federal taxes are withheld so they are not leaving money on the table, so to speak. Thus no other payments should be mad to them other than a “One-way” ticket out of the country>
June 9th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
This is such an iteresting topic I can’t help myself. To Elizabeth. Working on both sides of the border, how is that working out for you? I am ignorant I guess…but, illegals don’t contribute a thing as far as I am concerned and yes, I have personal experiences too; I have relatives that are illegal I am Mexican-American so I know all about it.
As far as benefiting from others using your social there is two sides to that. Personal experience, some illegal person was using my social and she totally distroyed my credit. Worked somewhere else using my name I had to pay extra taxes until all was cleared. Not to say that only illegals could do this, I am just speaking of my own expereince.
Bottom line, illegals (from whetever country) get hired because employers allow it. Employers have all the control over this issue and they allow it becuse they think they are saving money. However, we all pay the price in public services. Federal law should be enforced but it is not.
Illegals are a burden now, they were not before (taking about Bracero times) there was a system in place to bring in workers legally and then they would go back. If we had a system like that in place again I think this would aliviate the problem. The system would include a WC insurance system relative to the situation.
Think about it, most of those people really don’t want to stay they are just in a necessity.
Jo
June 9th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Professionalism requires us to be unbiased in such cases. If our companies make the mistake of hiring workers who are undocumented, and those workers are hurt; then we have an ethical and moral obligation to pay for their treatment.
I believe the responses to this article have lost focus on the issue, should we pay workers’ compensation costs for illegal workers? Important word here, WORKERS. As safety professionals we would not even be privy to that type of information. Human resource managers who hire can not even ask the question if someone is legal for employment or not, they can only ask for documents off either list A or list B and then try to verify the documents provided or use e-verify.
In practice this legislation sounds more like a pacifier for people in the USA who are angry or prejudice than something that could actually be enforceable.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
If I go to another country are they going to offer free schooling to my kids and feed them breakfast and lunch free? Will that other country give me food stamps? What about subsidy for my home? If I work will I be able to claim I have 15 children when I have none or 1, and pay the minimum amount of taxes? If I get hurt in another country while working, will their country pay for my medical bill and will I be awarded a nice settlement? If I fall and break my leg at home, do they offer free medical? When I reach retirement, will that country pay me social security and offer me medicad/medicare?
Bottom line, not just NO, but ___ NO!. We have just got to stop supporting everyone else and start taking care of our own. There are American families out their hurting, children starving, no insurance, no free food at school, no jobs. Here’s the argument - Americans or Illegals. Hum, which will the Senate choose and why are they making this discission anyway, shouldn’t that be ours who pay taxes???
No, if it is known that they can not collect workers comp and they must carry their own insurance coverage, then probably that will be a deterrent. BUT, those companies that continue to hire ilegals (and they know) should be punished to the max. Business licenses taken away, closed down and accounts frozen.
Oh, in reality the way it’s going we are going to be run by the Mexican Mafia here real soon. They keep letting them in too!
July 6th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
I have heard this argument so many times, but it simply is not true that Illegal Aliens get all these free government services! If they are working, they are paying income tax, which they usually do not get a refund for as they are not filing a return. They are paying sales tax on every purchase they make just like American consumers. To say they pay NO taxes is absurd.
Without a valid SS# they are NOT getting free medical care, they will receive LIFE SAVING treatment in an emergency room if they are at risk of “immanent death” just like anyone without insurance. They will not get treatment for terminal illnesses that do not qualify as an “immanent threat” to life.
Prior generations of immigrants did not have to go through what they do now, they just sailed in or were imported to do jobs American’s wouldn’t so the comparison to ancestral legal immigrants doesn’t work. For those fortunate enough to be born in America; you didn’t earn the right to be here, you just got the right parents! If Illegals are not to receive benefits, then guess who will be assigned the most dangerous, deadly jobs available? Perhaps holding employers who break the law by hiring them financially accountable is the solution, but they seem to have dodged the laws regarding Illegal Aliens so far. There needs to be reform, but does it have to be inhumane?
July 7th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
“Immigrants” who were “imported” as Roberta claims were sponsored by someone who was thought to have the means to shelter and feed and find employment for the persons in question as my grandparents were. In my town LEGAL immigrants were sponsored by an agent of a large employer who sought out more workers through contacts in the community that would take the immigrants in before they were sent word to emigrate unlike the mass conflagaration at the borders we have allowed to occur. As for the argument on being lucky you had the right parents - Roberta gets that completely correct - citizens of the USA are indeed lucky to be here and being born here is a beautiful thing - which is why a whole lot of pregnant Mexicans will do anything to get here….
Dangerous jobs? Grandparents at the early part of the century were given the most dangerous jobs then as well…..that hasn’t changed and won’t unless the immigrants (legal) have a college degree or some special skillset…..or should we just give them a government job working in the defense industry like they do in southern California?
Employers haven’t “dodged the law” either - it just isn’t enforced…much like gun laws…because those seeking more power want more laws to be passed so they can control more people knowing most people like Roberta are clueless. Sorry lady your arguments don’t hold water - do your homework.
July 8th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Great comment Roberta!
Just a comment on terminology- the government/law does not use the term Illegal Aliens anymore. They are referred as undocumented or illegal immigrants. Same goes for permanent legal residents - they are no longer referred to as permanent legal aliens. Just some education….
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:49 am
I wholeheardly agree with almost 99% of you! Illegal means they are doing something illegal which is a crime!! Illegals should not be hired and those companies who chose to hire or those who look the other way, need to be fined and the illegals should be deported and absolutely not given any benefits that are given to the American people. ” A country divided cannot stand” We need to remember and protect our Country from the Illegals that are trying to destroy us from within.
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:17 am
Great for South Carolina - only 49 more states to go. Watch Obama override the state with a federal law as he continues to rob from those who work and pay into these programs and give to those who do not.
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:26 am
Illegal immigrants in NO way should receive any type of benefits at all. If they want to have access to and receive benefits that American citizens get; then I say fill out the paperwork and become a citizen of this country and pay taxes like everyone else does. To Roberta I say that yes they are paying sales tax when they purchase things, but just how many “file income tax” at the end of the year? Just why is it do you think so many of them pay with cash when making purchases? It’s because they are getting paid in cash. I am so tired of people feeling sorry for all of these people, all they are doing is coming over here becaause they hate it in their country so they come over here and take jobs away from American citizens, but do not become a citizen themselves because all they want is the “BENEFITS” they can get here because they cannot get them in their own country, but they do not want to “PAY” like everyone else does. In my opinion “ANYONE” that is living here Illegally is no better than a “LEECH”!
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 am
No Workers Comp BUT whatever company was dumb enough to hire an illegal should be required to foot the entire bill for anything that happens to an illegal on their work force. Maybe then companies would think twice about employing an illegal
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I agree with Roberta! Its seems that everyone on this has forgoten that America is made of immigrants. We need to focus on the employer and not point fingers at the injured workers.
To Chris, yes they actually do file income taxes, maybe you need to do some research and get educated before talking. Undocumentated people would love to have the opportunity to become citizens the “RIGHT WAY” however, at this point there is no “RIGHT WAY”. Also, taking jobs way from americans…lol. If I recall correctly it’s never a mexican who is at the corner asking for money…
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Short answer - ABSOLUTELY NO! However, if an employer hires an illegal immigrant and they are injured on the job, the employer should be liable for ALL medical costs. This might prove to be a disincentive to hire ‘undocumented aliens’ in the first place.
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I work for a company where I know we have several illegal aliens. They provided very authentic social security cards and even driver’s licenses. When these Soc. Cards were checked through the SSA, we were told they were not good numbers and we should refer the employee to the SSA. When this information was told to our corporate office, corporate went ballistic and told us to stop doing this. They felt that the company might get sued for discrimination because most of the social security cards belonged to hispanics, all but one. That one was mine. I am a legal resident and have been for year. I pay my money every 10 years for the right to live here. I have never had to hire an attorney to do my paperword and actually found it was pretty easy. I plan on becoming a citizen within the next 12 months.
I believe we should round them all up and send them back to where they came. If I can pay, being a single mom of two, then they should. I know the men that work at my company are making great money; why can’t they save up and pay the money. They should get no benefits; they should back to where they came from.
As long as I am on my soap box, you know what irritates me even more: Getting my phone bill in 20 different languages so no one is offended. I call BS on that. The primary language is ENGLISH, learn to speak it. If you don’t want to, then there is another reason for you to go back where you came from.
Also, let me say that this country was founded on Christian values. If you don’t like that, There’s another reason to leave. I am sick and tired of being politically correct.
It if my firm belief that if you immigrate to another county, you should moderately conform to that country’s way of life; they didn’t choose you, you chose that country. SO SERIOUSLY GET LEGAL OR GO AWAY.
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Hey, you are all missing the point. Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, says that the non-documentated workers would like to live our American Life Style so we should give them benefits and money so that they can. Being that Nancy Pelosi’s husband is a multi-millionaire, I personally think I will call her and tell her that I would love to live her life style, so would she send me a few million so I can do so. Also, use of her jet that she uses 2 times a week to go from California to DC would be a great benefit I would like to have too!!
I am sick and tired of non-documentated workers taking from our country. Whether is medical, social security, education, etc. They are not intitled to anything from our country. I would agree to kick in some money for transportation to send them back to where they came from, but not for anything else. They are bleeding us dry. No wonder California is broke. They are trying to teach school in dozens of different languages, paying for child birth for non-documentated workers, etc.
Lets spend our money where is counts….get the non-documentated people out!!
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Since I was sixteen I have been working hard and paying taxes. I always considered myself a democrat and was definitely in favor of government programs that help those who needed it. When I was twenty six years old my abusive, alcoholic/addict husband left me (thank god), along with all of our money (he spent all of it on drugs) and possessions (he sold everything so support his habit). We had two small children and since he wouldn’t allow it so I wasn’t working at the time. We were living in a house he had rented from his mother, she quickly asked me to find another place to live. I didn’t have a job and I had no place to go. I was financially ruined, deeply in debt from him writing bad checks and had two small boys that I was going to make sure grew up to be good people and nothing like the sperm donor. I went to the SS Office to see about collecting welfare, temporarily. You know, what the program was designed for, American citizens who pay into the system and then run into a bad circumstance and temporarily need help. The first representative I saw whom barely spoke English told me “where I come from we don’t leave our husbands for that. You should find him and ask him to take you back.” You are allowed to request a different representative one time if you have good reason. The second rep tried to hit on me, told me that I wouldn’t be getting any money and want to know if he could see me after he got off. As I walk out through the lobby full of mostly illegal immigrants, waiting in lines at windows, getting my money, I felt defeated. It’s twenty years later and I worked hard, raised my kids to be successful adults, and for the last ten years took care of my mother with Alzheimer’s and my father with Parkinson’s until they passed last year. I have always kept a good attitude through all of it because that’s what hard work brings success and happiness. Needless to say I am a very conservative republican. The problem is not the illegals in this country it is the government for allowing them to live and work here and then giving them hand outs comprised of our hard earned money. They are illegal and should get nothing!!! Become a citizen or be forced to go home!! I am proud of my country but some people sure make it difficult.
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Denying workers comp to illegals is a terrible idea. If an employer knowingly hires the illegal, they should face additional stiff fines. Many employers do check work status, but end up hiring illegals anyway.
It would be nice to say that all employers have to do is check somebody’s work status, and not hire people who don’t qualify. Unfortunately, it is not that easy.
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
To AC - You are right about two things: 1) America is made up of immigrants (leagal ones). 2) Also no it is not a Mexican, Cuban, or any other type of immigrant on the corner asking for maoney, because they all have jobs getting paid in cash and not having to pay taxes or help pay for medicare for him/her and their family or any of their other illegeal family or friends that are her milking this country dry. If they wanted to become citizens you cannot tell me that there is no-way for them to do it, besides why become a citizen when you can get all the bebefits for free. It is people like you and most (99.9%) of our government that is absolutly bleeding this country dry.
I totally agree with Barbara any of our government officals like the courput Nancy Pelosi that feels all of these illegeal’s deserves to get all of the benefits from living in this country then I say pony up give me the means to live her lifestyle, I deserve it just as much as they do, after all I pay my dues to my country everyday, and at the end of every year. I also paid my dues when I served this country as a member of the United States Air Force. I also think that if all the men & women that have given their lives for this country could see the shape tthat it is in now, they would be totally ashamed. I think that not only should all of the people that are here illegealy be shipped back to where they came from, but people like you (AC) that support us handing out benefits to people that are not here the “RIGHT” way should also be shipped out with them and let you see how it is and when you want to come back make you apply for citizenship.
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Amend TERI! You go girl!
Hey AC you need to really listen to Teri!
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Under no circumstance should an illegal immigrant be allowed to collect: workers compensation, welfare, social security beniefits, food stamps or anything else Americans have worked for and
contributed to for our own citizens.
If they are illegal they should NOT be allowed to work in construction, in restraurants, yard maintenance or child care. We need to take away the monetary incentive for free medical care,
free food and free lodging and only give those items to the talented and worthy immigrants who
have come to America legally.
P.S. Brown/HSE Mgr./EMT
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Of course illegal aliens should not get work comp. They are not entitled to jobs here in America. And our American companies should not be hiring these illegal aliens. So, not only should the workers n ot get compensated, the employers should get fined for hiring them in the first place because they are breaking the law too, aren’t they?
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 pm
We are talking peanuts here ! What is the big deal about workers comp? ILLEGALS receive free medical, food stamps and education for the bambinos. Just hush up and continue paying for these services, you wouldn’t want to risk being labelled a racist would you ?
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Barbara Hall: I am with you. I also want you to ask Nancy Pelosi how much was spent when she wanted her historic red office painted a different shade… never mind that it was the original historic color.. it was red after all, certainly not the colors of her Democratic party…. she settled for a salmon shade. From what I hear, it cost thousands of dollars. Maybe she can get her husband to reimburse the tax payers for that little paint job. I have an inside source.
I paid my money to become a legal resident. I couldn’t afford to do it being a single mom with 2 kids, but I managed. I know these guys working at my company are make way more money than I am and they never seem to have a penny in their pocket… maybe if they stopped drinking, smoking and paying for forged documents, they could afford the real deal.
I am sick of them sucking our country dry. Round em up, move em out, Yee Haw, Rawhide.
By the way, last time I went to Mexico, I was searched and so was my luggage and they carried guns around.
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Should illegal immigrants get workers’ comp if they’re hurt on the job?
NO AND THE EMPLOYER SHOULD BE FINED FOR HIRING THEM!
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:39 pm
AC is right on one thing. (We need to focus on the employer ) everything else he needs to research!
Not to say that he COULDN’T not know ONE who pays income tax. MAYBE
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I agree with Barbara, just patch them up and send them back to where they came from. As for those that think we should share the wealth! Bull crap! I have worked hard for what I have and I don’t want
to share with anyone other than my family.. And as far as Comp.! They are illegal and it is supposed to
be illegal to hire them. Our Gov. should round up all illegals and send them all back to where they came
from.
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I am so sick of people using the excuse “that America is made of immigrants” (AC). That was a hundred years ago!! Those immigrants came here legally through Ellis Island. To those of you claim they are ‘paying taxes’ they are also claiming TAX REFUNDS by using a federal ID # and NOT a SS # (check it out if you don’t believe me!). And they DO get FREE medical care at any hospital emergency room - which is why many states have had to close hospitals because they’ve run out of money (check that out too!). This has also created LONG waits for treatment at many hospital emergency rooms when they have to treat some for the ’sniffles’ - and call it an emergency. BS! Too many of you have your head in the sand if you believe they should automatically receive citizenship. Teri, I applaud you and your efforts to do this the right way and I wish you and your children the best!
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:53 pm
There is a significant difference between breaking a law…and being the proverbial “bad’ person. Most of these “illegals” came here to find work and better their lives. Many Americans are now in the same boat as to being jobless. If they could find work only if they crossed the border into Canada…would we call them crimnals…or simply desparate?
The criminals are the companies that hire them so they can save a buck.
They would not be here if they were not being hired…and often for jobs no one else will do.
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:56 pm
One other issue to consider….there are at least 11 million illegals…how do you “round” them up and send them back?
If they are working…they are paying the same taxes you and I do.
Again…I do not think they should enter the counrty illegally…but I think the heat should be directed at the greedy employers who knowingly hire them such as the kosher meat packer.
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
3 human beings were hurt due to employers’ carefree heedlessness.
Who determines who is legal/illegal?
Who asked the original Native Americans if any of our ancestors could legally take over?
Some of our south of the border brothers and sisters’ families have been on this side of the Rio Grande centuries before SS or WC.
Sometimes the American perspective needs a lesson in history, humility and humanity.
A civilization has the resources to create jobs and raise the standard of living for all.
Instead of criticism and isolation, I vote for those who create opportunity and safeguard all.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:24 am
If an illegal immigrant is not covered by Work Comp, then you reward the company for hiring illegal immigrants. ANYONE in this country illegally, should not be hired…there are laws in place to prevent this and those laws need to be enforced. If they are not hired, then Work. Comp. coverage is not an issue, as usual our political and media system is focusing on a problem that shouldn’t even exist.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:32 am
I guess we all have a lot of frustrations on this subject! but until we can get our Political leaders to hear us then we don’t really stand a chance! I can’t even watch our President talk anymore because he is leading us down a horrible path! I work in a place now where we do not have any Hispanics and I am proud that we don’t! Why take the chance!
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:43 am
Where do ya’ll live? I live three hours north of the Mexico boarder - you can’t swing a dead cat around here and NOT hit an illegal - they are all over the place and we need to round them up and send them back to where they came. No comp for illegals, period. Make the companies that hired the illegals pay for the doctor bills.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am
Please demonstrate some professional decorum. Is this a professional site or the Klan’s web site?
Should illegal immigrants get workers’ comp if they’re hurt on the job?
My opinion only is Yes. If an employee is injured the status of the employee in no way reflects on the employees responsibility to provide a safe work environment. Do you think if you have a high risk area that the risk would not affect other employees because of their status.
A lot of these comments that do not address the issue, while amusing, it saddens me to think safety professionals’ could harbor such raciest view. You can not protect your employees from expensive law suits if you do not investigate the risk in the work environment with eyes free from racism. This hurts the Safety professional community as a whole. All professional organizations have ethics. I would recommend we all read them occasionally. Be Safe All. Joe Ray
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 am
So ILLEGALS pay sales tax, and that covers medical costs they cannot be denied? DOUBT IT ! Sales tax covers the cost of educating their children, which also cannot be denied ? DOUBT IT ! In NY, some of the most oppressive taxes are property taxes paid by homeowners. These pay for the services provided to everyone, regardless of OUR ability to afford them. Since ILLEGALS cannot own homes, rentals, aka “affordable housing” should be called what it is, housing that’s affordable to those living there, but not to the people who ultimately pay the tax for them! If sales tax is enough, let’s do away with income and property tax, and everything will be wonderful and I won’t have to press 3 for English ! DOUBT IT ! Lastly, ILLEGALS pay income tax, and the government makes sooo much money they will not even mention it ? All together now…DOUBT IT !!!
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:06 am
“I work in a place now where we do not have any Hispanics and I am proud that we don’t! Why take the chance!”
Are you flipping kidding me? Now we don’t want to hire hispanics because they might be illegal? Thanks for the good laugh, that’s the most idiotic thing I have read in awhile.
What would happen if illegals were not compensated for workplace injuries? Who would pay for their medical care? Would employers hire more or fewer illegals knowing they would not be responsible for their safety?
I work for a company and we do check workers to make sure they are eligible to work in the US. We still have illegals that make it through! Even when we catch someone with phony numbers, we, by law, have to give them 8 days to contest, all the while they are employed by us. That’s eight days of hoping the person doesn’t get hurt, or doesn’t scam us into a false claim.
What would happen if all illegals magically disappeared tomorrow? What effect would that have on our economy? No doubt, I would expect to see and hear many of the “send them all back” crowd complaining about how much they have to spend at restaurants, for housing, and other staples that are comparatively cheaper with illegal labor.
Many people don’t realize how difficult it is to come to this country legally. Coming illegally is so much easier, and often times less expensive. It is no wonder why someone would choose to come illegally to better their life.
I am in no way endorsing illegal immigration. All I would like to see is some basic understanding of the entire issue before anyone spews their stupidity by ignorantly shouting “send them all back.”
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I believe the underlying issue is the term “illegal”. If a person enters the country illegally, then that person is barred from working this country. Perhaps if the Federal Government begins to enforce laws that are already on the books, then this problem could begin to be resolved. In addition, employers that hire illegal immigrants must pay when one gets injured (they . Solution, don’t hire them and enforce immigration the laws.
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I do not know who made this shameful remark. …perhaps they could not see what they were writing due to the little white hood over their head. I am ashamed that he or she is in the safety professional. This remark is simply racist and hateful.
Many hispanics can trace their roots back far further than those who seem to think that the concept of “liberty and justice” for all applies only if your skin is white.
“I work in a place now where we do not have any Hispanics and I am proud that we don’t! Why take the chance!”
Concern over illegal immigration and the effect it is having is not racist…..but wanting to deny a fellow human being compensation for an injury is simpy shameful. The good Samaritan made his place in history simply because he had compassion on another who was not a member of the ‘right” group.
The US has always prided itself on holding itself to a higher standard in how people were treated.
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:44 pm
To Damon - I would gladly pay more for housing, clothing, & to take my legally residents family if it would get “all” of the illegal residents out of here and sent back to whrere they came from. Ii do not speak a foreign language, although when I was in the military and was stationed in Japan I took the time to learn enough of their language to be able to get by when I would go off base sight seeing; however if I was going to be LIVING there for the rest of my life I would learn the language and be fluent in it. Bottom line if you want to live here and enjoy “all” the benefits of this GREAT country, whether it is being able to get worker’s comp or any other benefit from living here, then become a legal resident rather than cheating the system and getting it for free.
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
The comment about not hiring Latinos is not even worth a response, so racist. However, I am glad more Latinos are starting to see what a burden illegal immigration have become to this country.
Its human nature to take advantage and unfortunately in the US we have made it very easy for others to take advantage of our riches. Add to that rich-egocentric ignorant people like Nancy Pelosi that want to appease their conscience by giving all the “poor souls” our money. Why doesn’t she give them her money?
I’m Native American with Mexican-Aztec descent, I can pull rank on most of you on immigration, but that would take us too far back so let’s leave that one alone and move forward.
We have elected coward politicians hiding under political correctness. But, let’s be realistic in order to send people back legislation would have to change and laws would have to be enforced. That’s why I think the first thing that should be done is tougher employment law enforcement. Starting with Worker’s Compensation, why not!
In California our generosity has bankrupt the state as the nation is witnessing. What we should be doing is asking questions.
Who are the people in the current administration in charge of enforcement?
Who is the head of WC Board?
How can we change legislation?
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Thank you Mel and Chris. My son is in the Air Force now for 12 years, spend a year in Korea and a year in Iraq and is now in Japan for 3 years. My daughter was employed by Dept. of Homeland SEcurity until her pregnancy. I am so proud of them both - I am Australian - they were born in the US. I don’t call them Australian Americans, they are just Americans. I saved a little bit of money at a time so I could afford my green card when it came due. I am now saving for citizenship and plan on it next year.
I am fully behind making the government, both federal and state, enforce the laws. I am very uncomfortable at my place of employment knowing that we have illegals here and being afraid to say anything. I can’t afford to loose my job right now. That is so wrong to feel that way. I sure hope some of our legislatures read these posts. God, I hate the Politically Correct crap they stuff down our throats.
There was a raid close to my job about a year ago. They rounded up about 100 illegals. You should have seen some of the guys at my plant scatter. We didn’t see them for days until they made sure the feds weren’t coming back. It just makes me sick. I read in the paper now that the ones that are being detained pending a deportation hearing (yes 12-14 months after the raid) are suing because their rights are being violated. What a load of crap.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Hey Carol - Just because you say the U.S. should hold itself to a higher standard does not mean that we should give away benefits to people that are here illegaly. Also, yes the Good Samaritan did help the (wounded & left for dead) person on the roadside by taking him to a Inn and paying for a room and for him to be seen after for a few days, he did not however provide for him for the rest of his life. If you are going to use a sample out of the Bible make sure it fits what you are saying! The people that are here illegaly are nothing like the person that the Good Samartian helped, because they are getting everything given to them and they have no intention of ever becoming legal residents or bettering themselves. They are nothing but free loaders!
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Good response Jo.
I think most agree that if a person is going to be here…they should be here legally. The reality is that conditions are so poor in Mexico…many flee for a better life. I am not sure that is so much “taking advantage” as doing what we would do in the same circumstances.
And if the economy does not improve…we all may have a better understanding of what it is like to have no money for even the basic standards of life.
I think we need to aim our outrage where it will really help…and that is the cause of the problem….companies that hire illegals to save a buck.
We need to do far more inspections of plants to make it harder to look the other way.
Target the industries that often take advantage such as meat packing, chicken processing etc. the chicken plant across from us in the industrial park has a long history of hiring illegals. They were finally raided…over 100 illegals…and some one in HR helping with false documents to make a personal buck.
As to many agricultural workers…ask farmers how successful they are in getting workers. I read a story recently where the farmers said their crops were rotting in the fields due to lack of workers.
One possible solution would be to make it easier to get a guest worker status.
I have read that one reason people enter illegally is that it is so hard and expensive to do otherwise. I am not saying this makes it right…just that being illegal does not negate your basic rights to proper medical care and coverage if injured….which I guess what we are supposed to be discussing anyway.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:09 pm
To Carol:
To whom are you referring with regard to the shameful comment? My stance is one of law. Illegal immigration is illegal regardless of where that person comes from. On the other hand, I believe if an employer hires an illegal immigrant (regardless of origin) that employer is responsible for any workplace injury that person may receive. I am irritated by individuals who want to play the race card. This is an issue of legal vs. illegal immigration. Many, many people have participated in the civil process and become citizens of this country. There are many more illegals in this country who are hard working, but illegal nonetheless and some refuse to participate in the process. Are we to ignore Federal laws because we “feel” good doing so? If that be the case, let’s ignore them all and we can have anarchy. We are a country of laws. Your comment of the little white hood is uncalled for. It seems to me that if one disagrees with popular opinion on this topic, that person is now branded as “rascist”. It would be nice to have a civil discourse on the topic based on objective data rather than feel good opinion. Just my thoughts. And by the way, I am a safety professional, duly registered and practicing.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Why are they still illiegal if we know who they are? It’s obvious that the Government will do very little to round up the illegals and deport them. Why gove them benefits? The politicians are working behind the scenes to give them voting rights because they pay taxes. That’s a joke in itself. Go to any grocery chain and see who is sending Western Union Money Orders back to Mexico. In addion, the proposed health plan includes free medical for these illiegas. Enough is enough don’t you think.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:43 am
To Carol:
In addition to ‘Chris says’ what about the old Bible saying “Thou shall not steal”. Even those who are here with good intentions of making their life better are stealing by not establishing themselves according to the law. It is up to each individual to be responsible for their actions. Unfortunately, the majority of illegals feel it is not up to them to be responsible and will continue to ‘take’ as long as our government ‘gives’. By the way, I know a lot of citizens who feel the same way, if the government is willing to give, why not take as long as it is available.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Back in June I replied to the question of whether or not illegal workers should be barred from receiving workers’ compensation; now I sit here and read through the flurry of responses from other professionals and am greatly distrubed. I don’t know if those of you reading this and responding are Safety, Human Resource, Workers’ Compensation, Attorneys, or Medical professionals; but I am worried now for any foreign worker due to the comments being made here. Many of you are focusing on “Mexicans” or “Hispanics”, I’ve read comments here like: there were room full of illegals collecting benefits, you can’t throw a cat without hitting an illegal, we don’t hire hispanics and I’m proud of that, and the like. Well, I’ve never been able to look at a person and disguinish whether or not they were illegal. If that is a talent that can be taught I’m sure the border patrol would be interested in learning. In my opinion many of you have harvested the talent, or at least you think you have, however, I did not know it was necessary part of investigating an accident cause or a requirement for Workers’ compensation claims adjustors for determing compensability. In short if a company has hired a person, they are hurt, then the company pays for the injury through Workers’ compensation insurance. PERIOD.
Just so you don’t get the wrong idea from my name, I am a citizen, born in central Indiana. Although I’m not Hispanic, my husband is from Mexico and my children are bi-ratial. It is extremely difficult to change an illegals status even when marrying a citizen as he did. And just so you know, when an illegal marrys a citizen, it does not make them a citizen automatically as many people think. We spent $10,000+. Lastly, I hate to think that when my children are old enough to work, I will have to worry about trying to protect them from the insensitivities that have been expressed here solely due to someone’s skin color or last name like they don’t have enough against them already.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Its a bit of the subject, but it doesn’t cost much to legalize if you marry a citizen. My family member only paid about 2000 because he did all the paperwork himself and married a Mexican woman. They were able to visit me within a 16 months after submitting her application. However, illegally it can range from 500-3000 from Mexico depeding on who you know and where you are coming from and how much you can do on your own.
And Carol, I understand that in the past people came because of necessity, that’s not the case anymore trust me, I know first hand. Yes, life is not as easy in Mexico as it is here, but there is opportunity and school is not unreachable. The schools in Mexico are much more advance then ours, and the people that WANT to progress do, there are a lot of middle class in people.
Here is a little history: In the old days people use to come from North Mexico and work for periods of time they were in the Bracero Program, after their shift they would go back. They all wanted to go back to their families. Now, they are coming from the South part of Mexico some of them don’t even speak Spanish, they are indians and have different traditions, but everyone in Mexico knows that if you can make it over the border you can get FREE, food, shelter and medicine.
This is very attractive to these people, because of their culture because it is very different than the traditional culture in Mexico. Pretty soon you’ll start seeing a version of Tijuana in Calfifornia if this country doesn’t control borders and enforce hiring paractices.
That is the sad reality, but we can not be the saviors of the world everyone has to carry their own weight in this life.
Jo
July 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Elizabeth Guerrero. Without even mentioning mexican or hispanic, the word here is ILLEGAL. Having married one, wouldn’t that be a crime ? If he deceived you about his status, that might be a crime and you may be able to get out . How did you obtain a marriage license without him having proper documentation? If false information is provided to a company in order to gain employment, that could be a criminal act absolving the company from responsibility. If a company did not care to check the legal status of an employee, then it should be responsible for any compensation not the government or taxpayers . I wish you luck with your now hopefully legal husband and your bi-ratial? kids, “like they don’t have enough against them already ” ? WTF, please esplain?
July 24th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Wow. Why is it when the word “illegal immigrant” is spoken, everyone immediately wants to go to “Hispanic”. Illegal is Illegal is Illegal REGARDLESS of where the person originated. Anyone in this country absent a visa or other documentation (other than actually being a citizen) is…..that’s right, you guessed it… here illegally. So, any employer that wants to hire workers not authorized to be in this country takes on the responsibilty to care for them in the event of injury. Perhaps employers should be more diligent when perfoming background checks… what a concept. Of course, there are those employers who love to pay less than the minimum wage and don’t want to offer benefits either…maximize the bottom line at any cost… This is a national problem and employers who particpate in this practice offer a disservice to us all. Instead of inventing new laws, uphold the existing laws and do the will of the people.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Why is it so many people are accused of being ‘racist’ if they believe a person who arrived in the US ILLEGALLY shouldn’t be here?! Perhaps we should begin releasing inmates from prisons - no matter the offense - since you’re not going to uphold the laws (upholding the law is racist!!). Why should they be locked up if we’re going to let other criminals walk free? Another solution is to have YOU support the illegals since you seem to think it’s OK. Call me a racist (I’m not and my oldest son is ‘bi-racial’ hispanic/caucasian AND served his country in the USMC) but YOU’RE a bleeding-heart ‘ignoramous’ (too bad I can’t say what I really feel!).
July 27th, 2009 at 10:20 am
It amazes me to read the posts here. The original question wasn’t “should employers disregard safe work practices when they have an illegal workforce?” That would be ILLEGAL. As an American citizen there are alot of things that I cannot do by law. Does this mean that I am being discriminated against??? Why is there such a problem understanding that illegals should not be rewarded with the systems put in place to protect the AMERICAN worker? I’m not racist, but if you want to be in America then do it the correct way. And quite honestly, I am tired of hearing the whining from employers who say that they can’t find Americans to perform their jobs. Ask any parent of a college kid to send them your way.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:07 am
If the illegal immigrants are not to be eligible for worker’s comp insurance, then it seems that their employer would lose the protection afforded by worker’s comp laws and be subject to lawsuits from the injured employee. I don’t think that the worker would have too much trouble finding an attorney to take the case.
The costs to the employer for defense and payment of any judgement may far exceed the costs of worker’s compensation. It might act as a real deterrent to hiring illegal immigrants.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:23 am
So many states are broke or very close to being broke and yet we still give benefits to illegals. People just dont seem to understand the land of milk and honey is no more. The “free ride” has to stop this country can no longer afford to just keep handing the $ out. No one seems to understand the financial burden illegals put on this country. It is 2 or 3 times the price of the Iraqi war.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:52 am
If they are employeed and get hurt on the job ,it is the reposability of the employer to pay workmans comp.Employer should have done background check to find out if he/she was legal in the first place.this is why it is so importand to do your home work before you Hire a potential Illegal.beleave it or not these people, if they work they pay taxes one way or the other uncle sam always gets his share.
July 27th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Mike has a good point if illegals are not eligible under the WC rules protection, then that would make it even more appealing for illegals to get hired since they would be able to sue for any amount of money. Illegals would be easy pray for attorneys and fraud. So, the answer goes back to the control Employers have by applying lawful hiring practices.
Jo
July 27th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Who pays workers’ compensation benefits?
Employer are required to purchase insurance for their employees from a workers’ compensation insurance, some companies are allowed to act as their own workers’ compensation insurance companies (also called self-insuring).
When a worker is injured, his or her claim is filed with the insurance company or self-insuring employer, which pays medical and disability benefits according to a state-approved formula.
Worker’ compensation is NOT a goverment benefit and is not pay with tax payers money
To arrive at a base rate for workers’ compensation insurance, each classification is translated into a dollar amount, which is then multiplied by 1 percent per $100 of the total payroll for that employee. For example, the office clerk classification is roughly $1.25 per $100. So if that employee is paid $500 per week, the workers’ compensation insurance premium for that employee costs to the employer $6.25 per week.
And can you tell me were are the free benefits?
Fact All employees (legal and Ilegal) pay taxes
Fact to get govement benefits must prove you are legal
Fact you must be a citizen and be 100% English fluent to work a goverment (SSA) agency
July 27th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Laura
Thanks for your excellent comments. I want to make clear that the comment I stated was shameful was the ignorant rant by the person who stated he was glad their were no hispanics where he/she worked. Some one needs to clue this person into the fact that hispanics can be citizens too.
The problem of illegal immigration will cease the day that ILLEGAL hiring stops. …whatever it takes to make that happen.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
We need to expose employers/companies who are hiring illegal workers. I’m checking on this right now-with a little help (including any legal issues). My youngest son has looked for a job for months without success. At first I thought this was an excuse so I began looking for myself to see what’s out there. He’s right! And I know of several places in this town where illegals are working. In addition to my full-time job, I work a part-time job at a local grocery store. We see the Western Union’s going out daily. Others come in to buy air-time for their cell phones and food - all cash. I must say, though, they’re all polite and courteous and I hold nothing against them - except they’re here illegally. Working for a large university with a high number of international students, it’s unfair for them with all the redtape go through to come here legally - while others just walk across the border.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Laura: Fact an illegal with an ‘anchor baby’ is entitled to benefits. Fact - ANY illegal will receive treatment in many hospital emergency rooms. Fact - illegals are receiving tax refunds (claiming Head of Household!) by using a Federal ID #. Want more FACTS?
July 27th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
90% of you that posted comments are intelligent and correct in your answers…illegal is illegal. But if 90% of us posting feel this way, why is it so hard to get the message across to politicians that we, as a democracy, want no illegals sapping OUR system? Oh, I forgot, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are running the store while Obama is out apologizing for the way Americans act!
July 27th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Mel: You mentioned “international students”… That’s another thing that I am concerned about. I know that some tax money goes to universities…why am I paying for a foreigner to be educated???
July 27th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Very well said Jason! The American people have been screaming for the laws of this country to be upheld for years now, but those politicians think they are smarter than the “people” and ignore the very laws that we demand to be enforced, laws that are on the books. Imagine enforcing the law what a conception
July 28th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Just remember all this next time you go to the polls. Vote the Constitution party! Vote anybody but who’s in there now>
July 28th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Jason: You are not paying for a ‘foreigner’ to attend a university. When they come here (on a legal visa) they are PAYING tuition and NOT ‘milking’ the system. They also have to prove financial responsibility BEFORE they are issued a visa. In some instances, the government of their country of origin will offer to pay all expenses if they’re accepted.
BTW, you were right on in your earlier comment (Pelosi and Reid). Why aren’t our representatives backing the majority of Americans who what our borders secure NOW and stop the influx of drugs and illegal ‘persons’ (can’t say ‘aliens’ now due to political correctness!!)?
July 28th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
too funny, in reference to your personal questions concerning my situation: first of all, marrying an illegal alien is not a crime. Second of all, I’ve been happily married for 6 years and was not tricked into marrying him or about his status. I don’t believe this forum is the correct place to discuss the specifics of how we went about getting married and the nightmare of changing his status. I can tell you that it was costly, and rightfully so since he did enter without inspection, and that we did it without the use of an immigration lawyer.
If you are that interested in the 3 year process to become a legal resisident alien without restirctions, please e-mail me directly and I’ll be more than happy to share my story with you. elizabeth.eadesguerrero@tyson.com
July 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Subject: What’s in the Health Care Bill? Wow!
Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!
Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits for you. YOU have no choice!
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise
Pg 58 HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individs finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your bank accts for elect. funds transfer
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring priv HC plans under Govt control.
PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for priv. HC plans in the Exchange
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. Example - Translation for illegal aliens
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up indiv. for Govt HC plan
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - U Health care WILL b rationed
-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will be automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt Monop
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into pub opt plan. NO CHOICE
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyr with payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll
pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz with payroll between 251k & 400k who doesnt prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll
Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC accrdng to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of inc
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from indiv. taxes. (Americans will pay)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finan/pers recs
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician svcs for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same
PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr’s time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries
PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs
PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.
Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admiss that results in a readmiss-Govt will penalize you.
Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand
pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!
Pg 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing
Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqual Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan
Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!
Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can you say HC by phone?
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life
Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “adv. care planning consult” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates
PG 429 Lines 10-12 “adv. care consultation” may incl an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life
Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?
PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt in to your marriage
Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those svcs
Here’s the full Health Care bill that sits in the House.
July 28th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Each of us is entitled to make up our own mind. We need to insure though that what we call “facts” are indeed “facts”. They made indeed be factual….but it is all too easy for hear-say to be accepted as the truth…when it is not. This is why Snopes and Urban Legends websites exist…see the link below for some information on illegal immigration.
A suggestion that might be useful to all posting here….if we post something as a fact….then give a source. A good one is the Pew Trust…and I am sure there are others. I do not mean this as a negative reflection on others…just a way to insure we are correct…and perhaps educate others.
For example, the Social Security Administration stated in 2008 that illegal immigrants were actually helping the system….read it here. http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/petition.asp
Here is another source to help better understand what is fact and what is not.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=snopes+illegal+aliens+&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g2
For example…a number of posts here have alluded to illegals getting workers’s compensation and then continuing in a manner that indicates this is some sort of state or government benefit…that only Americans should get. I have managed Worker’s Complensation for years…and it is not in any way funded by the taxpayers. It is a form of no-fault insurance paid for by the employer….some are self-insured…and some have a carrier.
I do not believe that any one posting here has at any time stated that a person is racist because they are against illegal immigration. I have read nothing here in support of it….and share the concern that illeal immigration must be stopped.
I think at the same time we need to really place the blame where the blame lies…and that is the companies that hire them.
In summary…..I do not disagree that illegal immigration must be stopped. Benefits conferred on a person based on citizenship should be reserved for citizens. Workers Comp though has nothing to do with being a citizen…it is based on being an employee. If a company hires them…and they are hurt…they should pay. Think about it….if you could hire a worker…and NOT have to pay if they are hurt…would that encourage or discourage hiring illegals?
July 28th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Mel Says:
July 27th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Laura: Fact an illegal with an ‘anchor baby’ is entitled to benefits. Fact - ANY illegal will
receive treatment in many hospital emergency rooms. Fact - illegals are receiving tax
refunds (claiming Head of Household!) by using a Federal ID #. Want more FACTS?
Mel;
Isn’t medical treatment (emergency room) pay by work comp?????
Worker’ compensation is NOT a government benefit and is not pay with tax payers money
Who pays workers’ compensation benefits?
Employer are required to purchase insurance for their employees from a workers’ compensation insurance, some companies are allowed to act as their own workers’ compensation insurance companies (also called self-insuring). = in case you didn’t read this before =
And if they receiving tax refunds is because they work and pay taxes isn’t???
And why the government is issue them a federal ID #????
And is you son is willing to cleaning bathrooms at the university; I bet that is the illegal’s work at the university.
This is not about some one being illegal is about employers that hire them and government who don’t make a affordable visa program.
FACT like somebody writes before VOTE!
July 29th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Illegal entry into the United States of America is Illegal. Any questions? Now, if we could just get our Government to understand that concept.
July 29th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Laura: In regards to your references -
Isn’t medical treatment (emergency room) pay by work comp????? FACT: ONLY IF ON THE JOB. Other times they take their kids with they have the ’sniffles’ thus creating long waits for treatment in some areas.
Workers Compensation IS NOT a government. It’s paid by the employer and the rates THEY pay are based on the numbers of accidents and claims.
FACT: Receiving tax refunds with a federal tax number IS NOT RELATED TO THEIR PAYROLL. One can claim as Head of Household and receive an EARNED INCOME TAX refund without showing an income. I didn’t believe this either and it’s a good thing I didn’t bet the farm on this! It still amazes me! You also must realize not ALL illegal workers are paying taxes: gardeners, domestic and household help (in private homes) are paid in CASH. And there’s many companies doing this so as NOT to pay payroll taxes and pay below standard wages.
Yes, my son WOULD be willing to clean bathrooms at the univ. Currently, there’s a hiring freeze due to the economy. BUT, there’s NO WAY you can fool the payroll here: EVERYONE hired undergoes a required background check at a minimum of $35 to process EACH one. If you lie on it, you’re fired. If your social security # doesn’t match up, you’re done. They have a good system (I know since I used to handle the payroll for a large dept.).
FACT: There’s a LOT of facts we don’t know! I totally agree the employers should be held responsible AND heavily fined for hiring illegals.
Please know I’m NOT against the people themselves because I’ve met many who are very good, trustworthy people. But anyone - including US citizens - who is ‘milking’ the system for their own benefit, is scum.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Earned Tax Income tax refunds are for those with LOW incomes…not no incomes. The “fact” below is not correct. You get it only if you file a refund…even if your income is so low that you would not qualify otherwise.
“One can claim as Head of Household and receive an EARNED INCOME TAX refund without showing an income.”
You must file a return.
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96406,00.html
It’s easier than ever to find out if you qualify for EITC
The Earned Income Tax Credit or the EITC is a refundable federal income tax credit for low to moderate income working individuals and families. Congress originally approved the tax credit legislation in 1975 in part to offset the burden of social security taxes and to provide an incentive to work. When the EITC exceeds the amount of taxes owed, it results in a tax refund to those who claim and qualify for the credit.
To qualify, taxpayers must meet certain requirements and file a tax return, even if they did not earn enough money to be obligated to file a tax return.
The EITC has no effect on certain welfare benefits. In most cases, EITC payments will not be used to determine eligibility for Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), food stamps, low-income housing or most Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) payments.