Three huge settlements for work injuries to illegal immigrants
June 19, 2009 by Fred HosierPosted in: Injuries, Lawsuits, Special Report, construction safety, cost of safety
In the last two weeks, three undocumented workers have reached settlements totaling $3.85 million for workplace accidents in New York.
A lawyer representing the three men said the message to businesses is clear: If a company employs an illegal immigrant and that person gets hurt on the job, the employer is still responsible financially.
All three were in construction but working on different projects.
An illegal immigrant from Mexico was scalded over large portions of his body by an exploding pipe at a Wall Street construction site and settled his case for $2.5 million.
A second undocumented Mexican worker suffered severe injuries to his left foot and other parts of his body when a beam fell on his lower body at a building site in Manhattan. The worker settled his case for $750,000.
The third worker, from Ecuador, was injured at a construction site in Queens when three 44×10-foot trusses, each weighing 200 pounds, fell on him. He suffered a fractured hip and other injuries. His settlement is for $600,000.
This worker said at a news conference, “The contractor tried to blame me.” When asked what message he would give to other workers, he said, “Don’t be afraid to talk to a lawyer.”
Joel Magallan of Asociacion Tepeyac, an immigrant advocacy group, said, “They [undocumented immigrants] have to know today that they have rights — the same rights as other workers who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents.”
Let us know what you think of this story in the Comments Box below.
Tags: employer financially responsible, illegal immigrants, injuries to undocumented workers
Loading ...
June 19th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
This actually makes me pretty happy. Perhaps employers will begin to see that there is a downfall to their cheap labor. I am sure they thought that they would be exempt from covering undocumented workers because they (workers) would never file anything for fear of being sent out of the country. I hope the employer also gets kick in the pants for hiring illegals to begin with.
June 19th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
“The contractor tried to blame me.” When asked what message he would give to other workers, he said, “Don’t be afraid to talk to a lawyer.”
Maybe had they talked to a lawyer PRIOR to making their way into the contry illegally his might not have happened.
I belive that it was the high profiles of these cases and the circumstances of their Alien status that prompted such high settlements.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
We have to protect everyone equally working at any job site.
Reguardless of your stand on Illegal Aliens.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
In fairness it is the responsibility of the company to cover injured employees. My question is in regards to the company, did they do background checks and check for immigration status. The company should pay all medical bills and make sure the illegal employee is returned to their country of origin.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:45 am
If you are an illegal immigrant by definition you are a criminal and should not be entitle to any US rights.
If you are an employer employing criminals undermining the fabric of the US then you get what you deserve.
The employers need to be fined heavily for employing those who are illegal.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:46 am
Looking at the flipside of the issue Becky, coming from a company in the staffing industry, illegal immigrants are pretty easily able to get into a workplace with identification. The e-Verify has on many occasions accepted an individual as legal to work. All documentations indicate that the worker is legal as well. On several occasions this has been the case and the worker actually comes forward stating he/she is not legal. How is an employer supposed to get around this when all proper precautions and measures are taken? It may not necessarily be for “cheap” labor. Additionally, I have learned that it is not very easy by any means to get an illegal sent out of the U.S. Even with a statement of illegal status, I have been told there is not much an employer can do. This amazes me on many different levels!
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:54 am
Wrong message, now every illegal immagrant whether they are injured by accident or on purpose will go find a lawyer and tie up our already bogged down legal system. They all should be fined and deported and their employers should additionally be fined and put on probation for about 10 years as a result of hiring them. They should be allowed to keep about 5% of their award and the rest should go back to the tax payers.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:54 am
As much as I do not like “rewarding” bad behavior (illegally working in the US), I like that these workers received settlements. I agree with Becky that many employers are not as worried about work conditions around illegal immigrants, because they don’t think they will demand to be treated fairly. In the employer’s eyes, this keeps costs down. It is nice to see that anyone an employer decides to hire will be treated the same way regardless of their legal status. Maybe more companies will avoid hiring illegal immigrants.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 am
Stop the insanity!!! You know who pays for this don’t you? It makes perfect sense to me…don’t pay into the system, skirt the immigration laws anyway you can and take what you can when you can. I think any employer hiring undocumented workers needs to be heavily penalized. Make the fines large enough so that when you get caught it costs more than it would have by hiring someone legally.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Employees are only required to do an I-9 inspection by law. If all that comes back clean, then they are good to go. If furter delving reveals that the person lied and was in fact, illegal, the employer is not responsible for it as they did what they were required to do.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Deport the worker. Fine the company for hiring illegals. The blame has to rest on the company that hired the person who was breaking the law. The settlement money that the illegal got should be the fine required that he pays prior to his deportation for breaking the law.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Its very unfortunate that the laws of this country are not enforced. Perhaps had the workers been legal and trained in the tasks that they were doing there might not have been an accident. Perhaps they were trained and just didnt understand what they were being trained on because they didnt speak english. I agree with Becky i’m glad the company was forced to pay but perhaps they shouldnt pay because none of the laws in this country are enforced anymore. Oh except for the “legal people”. Its abominable!
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
The article is not clear if the employer knew that the workers were illegal, so to say that the employer purposefully took short cuts and hired cheap labor is not fair. The article also is not specific enough to make the determination if there were unsafe conditions in the work place or if the workers somehow took a short cut, were in an area where they weren’t supposed to be, did not follow procedure, etc. This article really beats up on the company without having all the facts and details.
And although I have compassion for anyone who gets injured on the job, I do hope that after awarding them their huge settlements that they were then prosecuted for being in the country illegally and subsequently deported. How many years were those workers in this country not paying taxes?
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
The bigger question is how did these illegal aliens get on the payroll of the companies in the first place? The second question is, because they were illegal at the time was that a factor in the excessive amounts of the awards?
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
This reminds me of when/why OSHA was founded. It was always: “The contractor tried to blame me.”…and the contractor did blame the worker and GOT AWAY WITH IT!
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Undocumented immigrants do not have the right to work in this country, if an employer hires them without thoroughly checking their status then shame on them. If a worker is found to be illegial then INS should be contacted and the individual sent back to their country of citizenship at the cost of that country’s government. Maybe they would guard their side of the border better. If the worker is found to have fraudulent papers, the the government of the country of origin not only pays for the return of that individual but provides the US with proof of prosecution thus placing the burden of the cost of incarceration on that government which would motivate them to guard their borders much better. It calls for tough decisions and tough measures but this problem has become critical.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Its no wonder this enconomy is in the crapper. We award illegal immigrants by giving them large settlements of money which will most likely be sent back to their country to be spent there. With things like this happening we will never come out of the hole that we are in. The companies should be fined for hiring the illegals, but they (the illegals) should be deported and not rewarded.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
To “Bill the Safety Man”….Yes, the employer is still ultimately responsible for the injured worker, whether the employee is legal or illegal. The employer does not have to continue allowing the worker to work (obviously since it is now know he/she is illegal), but must pay medical and any other fees that incur due to settlement, etc. As you stated, the I-9 and other areas come back clean, but it’s amazing what workers compensation insurance carriers can find out when digging to get status on legalization of a worker. The employer in so many cases is blind-sided. Lets give thanks to e-Verify that our goverment set up for employers to help curtail this….so many times it doesn’t even work; it only validates names and birthdates….that’s it.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
If they are illegal, the laws of their country should apply. They should not have the rights of a citizen. Then they should be deported. We have to stop this illegal conduct.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Bill the Safety Man touches on an irrelevant point. A person’s legal status in a country has nothing to do with how safe (or not) an employer keeps his jobsite. Their legal status did, however, play a large role in the employer’s response to the injury. He was hoping their legal status would keep them from making their voice heard, and thus he wouldn’t have to pay or be responsible for the care of an employee injured under his employment. The fact is, this could have happened to any employee since steel bars and 200-lb. trusses don’t discriminate the way we do. Opposition to undocumented people comes through instead of addressing the real issue here: Safety in the workplace. Everyone is always ready to criticize and judge and deny people rights…until it happens to them or someone they love. Let’s try and keep an open mind, and keep things in perspective. The employers were trying to save a buck on the labor, and likely thought their liability was equally mitigated by their own workers’ legal status. It is a very interesting and informative point to be made, and may finally start making some headway towards the goal of employers choosing to follow the law and NOT hire people who’s social security numbers they cannot verify. That is, when they even ask for one or attempt to check. An employer’s knowledge of a workers’ legal status should not affect their legal responsibility to provide a safe work environment or proper training of, and understanding by, the workers. Undocumented folks feel physical pain just like the rest of us. Good thing their injuries were brought to light and they were compensated.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Obviously any business using undocumented workers is taking a big chance and the current economic crisis is no excuse. Many of these workers, even if skilled in a trade, have no safety training of any type, and construction is indeed a dangerous occupation.
That said, I am tired of everyone forgetting the “illegal” in “illegal immigrants”. It is ludicrous that people living in our counry illegally should be afforded the same rights as citizens. Emloyers hiring illegals should be punished, but so should the workers themselves. We have always been the land of opportunity, and many immigrants that are in this county legally have indeed prospered. Why should anyone breaking the law benefit from it? These lawsuit settlements are as outrageous as thieves that are injured in the commission of a crime successfully suing the very people they were stealing from. The common denominator; lawyers of course!
the
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Most illegal immigrants are working somewhere with either a good or bad social, and they DO pay taxes. In fact, many don’t file a tax return because they don’t want to make themselves any more visible to the government. It is a mistake to think they don’t pay taxes. When we talk about people being injured, we’re talking about human rights and human pain, it doesn’t matter what country they’re from. Many of you are right on another point, however. An employer does not always have a surefire way of checking someone’s legal status, however, this should be taken on a case by case basis. You usually have to go “hang around” a company and you can make a fairly reliable lay person’s assessment of whether or not the employees are by and large undocumented. It’s not only the way they look, it’s the way they behave, and the sheer number of them in the same workplace. Given circumstances such as these, it is fair to say (perhaps not a legally viable conclusion) that employers are clearly turning a blind eye to the legal status of who they are hiring. And maybe it’s not for the cheap labor, though it IS probably cheapER than what they would pay others. But it probably is because of the increased leverage over the employee, and loyalty they would get from an undocumented worker who is much more likely to “protect” his job by showing up to work and keeping quiet about injuries, than a good ol’ litigiously-minded, socially active US patriot. Go team! Whatever your team is…
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Will they be required to pay taxes on the settlement money?
Fake identification cards are all over the place & are made really well these days. Trying to get information from DHS on the validity of id cards is like swimming through a sea of red tape.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I agree that all workers should be protected with the same coverage. In the case of illegal workers the company should be required to pay the settlement from it’s own account!
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
The illegality of the worker isn’t the main issue here. It’s that the company was trying to get away with cheap labor and around safety rules by exploiting illegals - most of whom would NOT report a company for safety infractions for fear of deportation. Except for native americans, WE’RE ALL HERE ILLEGALLY!!! Most of the 11 million undocumented workers will eventually become citizens through some immunity program. In spite of the nonsense spewing from America’s right-wing racists, it’ll be good for America. Get over it.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
The wonderful country we live in. COME WORK IN THE USA!! WE DON’T CARE IF YOU’RE LEGAL OR NOT! WE’LL GIVE YOU EVERY PROTECTION OF A LEGAL CITIZEN!!! WE’LL EVEN GET YOU YOUR CITIZENSHIP AFTER THE FACT, SO YOU CAN STAY!!
Why is there not better forms of citizen checks?! Oh yeah, because the politicians don’t give a rat’s you know what about the common worker. Protect the businesses and the extreme poor. The middle class honest worker who works their tail off just to make ends meet can foot the bill for EVERYONE!
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I wonder if so many of us feel like this about illegal immigrants being deported; Why are they still here? Maybe we should look at who were voting for because this countries government isnt “by the people for the people” anymore. E-Verify is good but could be better, we have the technology to put something in place and have it work for identifying illegals. It cant be that hard. The problem is our lawmakers have no backbone anymore.
The workers probably got there job back or one they could do because if they were deported “that would be discrimination” God forbid!
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I wonder what they would’ve received if they had gotten hurt in their own country. probably NADA. On that same note, I wonder what I would’ve gotten had the same happened to me working in their country. Probably NADA. I guess this is the milk and honey that they hear about when people tell them about working in the U.S. When do we start paving our roads in gold?
I do believe that the employers who hire illegals should be agressively held responsible and it should be made harder for employers to hire undocumented workers as well as undocumented workers to get work. to Paraphrase: GO HOME!!!
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Performing an I-9 check can result in the information coming back clean. My point being that performing the I-9 audit is the ONLY responsibility the employer has in determining the staus of the individual.
If after an incident, the employee is found to be illegal, their status becomes a mute issue and the EMPLOYER is fully responsible for the costs incured. This has been well docuemnted in several cases in MA and RI where illegal worker’s were, are and continue to be compensated for their injuries and are given a waiver to remain until the matter has been settled. Once settled, THEN INS can start the deportation process.
Seems that I was wasn’t clear enough.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Will they be required to pay taxes on the settlement money?
Fake identification cards are all over the place & are made really well these days. Trying to get information from DHS on the validity of id cards is like swimming through a sea of red tape.
No, tax free as with all other settlements offered in the US.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I agree, the company got excatly what it should have given the fact of hiring illegal cheap labor. I also think, if they can prove the employer knew they were illegals, they should be fined for that too. This is the only way emplopyers are going to stop hiring known illegals. Now for the illegals. They knew they were here illegally. I hope the IRS gets their fair share and then some for all that they have been paid and probably claimed a million dependents to not pay taxes. Then they should be deported. They should also pay the state back for any wellfare they have collected for themselves and family. This would hopefully teach the illegals a lesson too.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
How about this? We deport them, if medically stable, and pay the medical bills in their country of origin?
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
There is nothing on note to support that the company’s knew or were aware that the employees were illegal. Please re-read the reprt before jumping to conclusions.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Oh yes, and don’t forget, there are several states where there is statutory language that prohibits payments to undocumented workers. This is NY, remember?
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:03 pm
If these guys are in this country illegally, I feel that they have no rights. Why should all the hard working America people pay for this. I deal with companies who have employees from Mexico who do not understand or speak the english, when that is an issue they should not be permitted to work in this country. This is America and the last I knew we spoke english in this country.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I wonder how much the injured illegal immigrants will collect and how much their lawyers will get.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
QUOTE CUBABA” Most illegal immigrants are working somewhere with either a good or bad social, and they DO pay taxes. In fact, many don’t file a tax return because they don’t want to make themselves any more visible to the government.”
Where are you from? Maybe 20 years ago, maybe .02% of the illegal population and they’re the ones who just got here. Let’s go to Vegas, for 500.00 I can get you a green card, a union card, a false SS number and put you to work. It’ll cost you a dollar an hour and your vacation check.This person can open a bank account, get credit, and a drivers license and get the filed taxes back. Same deal for non-union Illegals only the taxes you pay on ten bucks an hour don’t add up to squat.
Oh and if you complaing,you’ll be threatened with deportation. But we’ve had entire crews deported only to be back as some one else the next week.
For 500 bucks I can buy a birth certificate so you can say you lost yours. A little counterfit paperwork and your an American and can’t even speak the language. We actually busted several people doing these things. Were they prosecuted? Nope, just terminated. And that’s part of the problem. When certain Illegals were treated badly for not paying off these human traffiketeers, they complained to me (a white manager who they knew they could trust) but would not make any kind of formal statement I could use to prosecute because they would face deportation if they did. Why didn’t I blow the whistle? I could have been not only fired by my people but could have faced civil and criminal action. Many of the guys had paperwork good enough to work in the country so an anonymous phone call does little good. I would have to have provided paperwork from my employer that proved they knowor had suspision these people were illegal. That’s theft of company property as every manager signs a non disclosure contract in their paperwork (always read what ya sign).
Yes, they have learned how to sue. Of course with such large settlements, they’ll be appealed and the settlement lowered at the appeals court where a judge and no jury makes the determination. But it’s still expensive. The problems are: 1. Employers shouldn’t be hiring undocumented workers IT’S ILLEGAL. Unfortunately as shown above, for a little money youcan get through if the employer only complys with the basic laws and doesn’t check too close. 2. There are no safety laws anywhere south of the US border and it’s a huge effort to keep these people safe. 3. If you think Legal American workers are lazy about safety, work safety in the South West US. You’ll gain a whole different perspective, and if you haven’t, you haven’t seen the problem in it’s entirety. 4. A south of the border national can pretty much retire on a hundred grand. There are documented cases of these guys getting purposely hurt to get money. 5. I have also witnessed some of these guys working W.C. ‘bounties’ by telling other workers on their jobs ‘If you do get hurt make sure you go to this guy (handing out cards) he’ll get you money. 6. Too many times when a companies involved either in a vehicle accident or OJT injury, once they get home and talk to their friends and relatives, no matter how small the injury or minor the accident, the next day a lawyer is contacting you about personal injury. And the injuries are way worse than at the scene.
The smartest states are the ones where as long as you’re on WC you can’t sue for personal injury since your being taken care of.
But the illegals are finding out to read the fine print, a lot of Probono lawyers have the small print clause: plus expenses. So if that illegal does get 2.5 million the lawyer could end up with 2.45 million of it. This lawyer practice was so prevalent in Nevada, laws were inacted to prevent this abuse.
I agree anyone hurt on the job has to be taken care of BUT, the fraudulent ones need to be fully prosecuted instead of just terminating them, that sends a message.
It’s a huge problem and will take a lot of thought and effort to get it figured out and worked out.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I agree with Carl! Well stated.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
You know, I agree that they should probably be compensated. They got hurt on a jobsite, working.
I believe, as I would think most people who’ve commented on here, that this issue should NOT have even HAPPENED!! We shouldn’t have to be discussing this case, because the workers shouldn’t have even been here in the first place!!
My point is that our wonderful county and leaders have made it so easy for this type of thing to happen (workers here illegally). They have also made it so that we as legal citizens can’t do a darned thing about it, because they’ve made it so difficult to check on the status of these people. Truth be known, we probably have some deal with Central American countries (through NAFTA, or something similar) that we WON’T enforce our own laws against illegal immigration.
If I am thinking correctly, we as a country probably have one of the EASIEST citizenship requirements in the world. Heck, we don’t even require someone to SPEAK ENGLISH to become a citizen. When we actively teach, in our own public schools, which us as taxpayers pay for, English as a SECOND LANGUAGE, there’s something wrong with our requirements. Our official language is English, speak it, or don’t become a citizen. We’ve got to be the only county in the world that doesn’t require a citizen to speak the official language of the country to become a citizen.
If you want to live and work in our country, I’m all for it! Just do it LEGALLY!!!
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:33 pm
We have to protect everyone equally working at any job site.
Reguardless of your stand on Illegal Aliens.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
The workers had every right to sue, illegal or not. I don’t know the details of the incidents, but jury awards have gone crazy. As one who is against illegal imigration, I don’t appreciate getting labeled as a “Racist”. I don’t care where they came from or what their color is, as long as they are here legally. I don’t know about us all being here illegally, except for native americans. This wasn’t a country back then. We already had an Amnesty program. The laws that were put in place than, were never inforced, including going after the employers.
Nuff said.
Sorry for the rant.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I’m sorry, is this an “Your Opinion on Illegals” web site or is it a Safety News web site for “Safety Professionals”?????
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:51 pm
THREE HUGE SETTLEMENTS FOR WORK INJURIES TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS… hmmm
This is so racist, it is nearly laughable.
1 - HUGE SETTLEMENT??? BALONEY!!! My 18-year-old son had a freak low-speed [19 mile-per-hour] motorcycle accident in December in which he injured his back, despite helmet, sliding leathers, and all the protective gear. The total bill? $279,000.
Had any accidents lately? Here is the quote… “scalded over large portions of his body by an exploding pipe at a Wall Street construction site and settled his case for $2.5 million.” That’s CHEAP!!!! I’d bet the guy is scarred for life and has to go thru years of rehab. I knew a guy who got deep second degree burns [medically less serious than scalds, since less energy is delivered] over about 50% of his body in a fast-moving hydrogen flame-front. It took him more than TEN YEARS to recover… sort of.
2 - A workplace injury is a workplace injury. It absolutely **HAS TO BE** the responsibility of the contractor. The flipside is unthinkable…
“No, Mr. Boss-Man, I’m not walking under that crane. I ran a NASTRAN stress computation on that crane last night using my laptop supercomputer, with full knowledge of all the stress cracks in the cable assembly, and I think it’s unsafe.” Did you think an employee - legal or illegal - has the ability to evaluate the safety of a complex workplace? If you do, you’d better lay off whatever you’re smoking.
YES, workplace safety adds to the cost of doing business, and YES it ever-so-slightly inflates the cost of office buildings. On the other hand, the transcontinental railway was built on the broken backs of Irish laborers and the dead bodies of Chinese laborers. That’s not how we do things in the 21st Century. Make your workplace safe for your employees, period. I do.
3 - ILLEGAL ALIENS - Hmmm… let’s consider the alternative…. THREE ILLEGAL ALIENS INJURED IN HORRIFIC WORKPLACE ACCIDENTS - SENT HOME IN THE BACK OF A STATION WAGON AFTER BEING GIVEN AN ASPIRIN APIECE - TOLD TO STAY PUT THIS TIME AROUND.
Illegal immigration is a HUGE problem. I did pieces on it when I had my talk radio show. But one place you DON’T try to fix it is by withholding medical care for critical workplace injuries. In fact, since the amounts are actually not even large, and the legal status of the injured parties ought to be irrelevant, this is not even newsworthy as written. It’s actually just another racist potboiler.
Imagine the way the headline SHOULD have read… THREE SERIOUSLY INJURED WORKERS RECEIVE A TOTAL OF $3.85 MILLION IN SETTLEMENTS. Hmmm… well, it MIGHT qualify as newsworthy because it represented a “cluster”… the US workplace in general is actually a statistically pretty safe place [due in large measure to OSHA inspectors with long fangs], so clusters of large hits are rare. After all, 3 simultaneous Las Vegas jackpots at 3 unrelated casinos are also news… sort of. But overall, it’s a ho-hum headline.
Could it be that Mr. Hosier had not had any good headlines for a while, and using a bit of race-baiting could spice up the ol’ ratings?
4 - Follow-ons by commenters… “You shouldn’t hire illegal aliens / How hard is it to check status / etc.”
You shouldn’t hire illegals. Period. You should do due diligence. Period. The due diligence process is spelled out in law. After complying, you should be shielded from further responsibility. Period. I am sure the e-Verify system is less than 100% accurate, but it’s not too bad. Employers should not have to become CSI Miami. But far, far too many use a wink and a nod. The diligence of the 3 employers was not reported. We have no way of knowing.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Mary hit it right on the head. How much did the ambulance chaser make? (another topic for another day). I say pay their medical expenses and send them home. Not one dime more!
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I agree that any worker should be covered in case of injury. However, these illegal immigrants now should go through the process of becoming citizens or be deported. That is the way it should work in my mind. Illegals are a drain on the country as they don’t pay into the system they reap the rewards of.
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I do agree that all workers need to be protected - legal or not.
I have a facility (I’m a consultant) that used to have a 90% hispanic work force. They tried to hire a more diversified group, but non-immigrants were not interested in the job. The job was dirty & hot (concrete & drywall), but it payed well, but in 4 years - not one non-hispanic person applied.
A few have been deported in the past year. This employer did background checks & the required checks - and never came up with anything. Several of the employees are legal, so when one is deported - it’s usually a surprise.
I agree that there isn’t enough information in the article to say that the company(s) knew that the worker(s) was illegal.
I also agree that illegal immigrants do not have the right to sue in this country. The right to sue came from citizens declaring that their rights have been violated. Illegal’s have no rights. They do not have the right to our rights. Our country’s citizens should not have to reward them for being here illegally.
I also agree that everyone has a right to a safe work environment - I also agree that all people should expect to work safely.
I also agree that all people should be treated with common decency & feel that the company involved probably did owe them compensation (not the US citizens). I also feel that worker’s cut way too many corner’s and expect company’s to pay for accidents that they themselves caused.
How do we know that the accidents were a cause of carelessness of the employer? This was probably not their first day, they probably had some knowledge in the work they performed - was it their mistake?
I especially can’t stand employees trying to be compensated, after being injured, due to removing guards/barriers or just blatently cutting corners!
Employers are made to pay the bills on so many things that it has become ridiculous. We get cases all the time of employees that have back pain & have had it for weeks (couldn’t be that they just built a barn, or fell while skiing, etc). They don’t know what caused it & they want to go to the Dr. Many just do not want to miss the hour of work or they don’t want to pay the copay.
So, companies foot the bill & it makes people like me, that started out optimistic & believing that all people are good people with the best of intentions, turn into a pessimist & always trying to find underlying factors.
I don’t think they had the right to sue.
I do think they should have been compensated for their injuries (with limits equal to what worker’s comp would allow), as long as they didn’t violate a procedure(s) they were trained on - and it should only be paid by the employer.
I think we have a large group of excellent immigrants (illegal & legal) that are here only for a better life. They work hard & do the dirty jobs, that most of us don’t want. But like all people - there are a few bad ones.
I hope US company’s overall improve safety. I hope the government looks at the illegal immigrant issue with an open mind & what is best for all people.
I wish that lawyers would quit taking ridiculous cases (not referring to the ones in the article) & would actually go back to practicing law the way our founding father’s intended.
Good luck in life & stay safe!
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
In response to Wayne: My intention with this and other similar articles is to give safety professionals information they can show to their upper management regarding workplace injuries and, in this case, the fact that courts find companies have to be responsible for their employees no matter their employment status.
A larger safety point: Injuries change the lives of those who suffer them and are expensive, no matter the race, gender, nation of origin or their I-9 status. Unfortunately at some companies, safety professionals have trouble justifying the cost of safety to upper management. Employers all too often would rather take their chances that incidents like the ones in this story don’t happen. The purpose of this story is to show the consequences when that’s the position a company takes regarding safety.
I assure you, there is no race-baiting going on here on my part. I have allowed a variety of comments to be posted on this Web site as a reminder to all who are reading of the different opinions that are out there on this topic.
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
How can anyone even justify the illegal aliens even working there ! where are the safeguards we put in place to keep these uninformed law breakers out of our jobs to start with? What about the fines the company deserves for hiring these lawbreakers. What do we do now? turn our backs on the real facts that these people are just as bad as a rapist or murderer or thief? of course they should have been informed, but they do not legally belong in the workplace,therefore we only are concentrating on rights for criminals again! Illegal means illegal, why are we shading that area grey to benifit lawbreakers on both ends of this issue. the illegals should be deported with charges filen against them as well as the company responsible for their hire as their accidents are going to cost the legally working taxpayer, not them in the long run, but all of us! Why if I break a law, I go to jail, but if a foriegner breaks our laws they get protected ? And yes I believe we should protect people who are honoring our laws, and prosecute those who break them, this is how our system is supposed to work.
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:53 pm
I know of a case where the person violated the visa status, got into drugs, wrecked vehicles, and finally moved in with another family. He again lied about the visa status for each job application he took. Some employers don’t care, others do and then discharged him. He eventually moved because he feared deportation. I personally contacted the Homeland Security Office for enforcement of Visa violators. They stated if the alien was not seriously involved in trafficking, criminal intent, etc., they would not go after deportation.
So much for our tax dollars at work. Personally, I agree that stricter enforcement of Visa Violators and illegals in general are required. However, I do not believe that is what will be done. Amnesty in this country is only to provide increased tax base not to clean up the illegal mess that exist.
If an employer works an illegal who has provided what at the time was proper papers and, subsequent to that, the illegal employee get injured, then I believe the employee should bear the brunt of the cost. many states have laws regarding the application of compensation to those under the influence of drugs, etc. They do not qualify for Workers Comp, unemployment, etc. They also sign a state form stipulating the backgrounds and previous outstanding claims for compensation.
These states are legally fighting the fraudulent claims up front of employment and accident. We should simply apply those legal conditions of employment to ALL Illegal Aliens of whatever nature, and to the employers that hire them, then perhaps both parties could share the in the negligent cost of their acts. DO NOT PASS that cost to the legal public at large as entitlements,e tc. just because you can talk a lawyer into reprentation based upon “spinning the law” to get what they want.
Be responsible to all parties and do so legally.
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
The claims should be covered and the awards given seem reasonable. My concern is the taxes these and other iillegals get away with scott free. Why is it that people like myself who have worked for 30 plus years and continue to work and pay all of the taxes are going to get screwed in the end. How many illegals are receiving SOC. SEC. right now? How many have never paid into this fund and receive it now? When my wife and I do reach retirement in 10 years what will our benefits look like? The government had better have a plan for the people who have been paying the bills for all of these illegals.. Not to mention the jobs lost to the illegals. I don’t have a prejudice, I just want everyone on the same page.
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
I think the illegal immigrant and the Lawyer should be deported.
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Get a grip people. In these three cases everything worked out for the best. The workers who were working illegally were severely injured. And probably deported, or ordered to be deported once they are healthy enough. The companies were penalized by the size of the awards.
For the writers who complained about undocumented workers getting jobs with phony or stolen social security numbers, what do you think happens to the social security tax that is withheld from their paychecks? It is not refunded to them. It goes into the pool that pays benefits to legal workers, and the illegal folks will never see a penny of it.
For the rest of the immigrant haters, get used to it. As global warming ruins the agriculture in tropical areas, more and more people are going to head north for food, water, and jobs. The fact that we are going to have shortages in all of those areas, too, will not be a deterrent.
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Wait a minute - we have OSHA and worker’s comp system in this country. OSHA investigates every death and major injury which occurs on the job. Employers who are found to have skirted safety rules are fined. Worker’s compensation insurance provides for the employee’s medical care, their lost wages and disability for permanent injury/death. This is regardless of status. The cost of these claims will affect the employer’s worker’s comp payments for a long time. Underpayment of insurance results in substantial fines and or criminal liablility to the offending employer.
In order to qualify for the “lottery”, a lawyer has to convince the injured to waive payment for medical care, wages, etc. and allow the lawyer to keep 50-60% of the winnings. I see this as the Bar disabling our employment security using pawns called illegal labor.
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Wow! As the owner of a construction company, I have to increasingly compete with companies that use undocumented workers. We spend a lot of money to train our workers, have a great safety record, and were rewarded by our state’s worker’s comensation system “giving” our savings to companies with poor records to “level the playing field”. That’s “sharing the wealth” at it’s liberal best! Safety Girl was on the mark with many of her comments, but we have a growing Hispanic population in our area, and yet I have only had one Hispanic ever apply for a job. I’m definitely a lconservative, resent being accused of being a racist, Mangalore, and am amazed by all of the comments here thinking the illegals (or the companies hiring them) should get a free ride. I hate to make generalizations like Mangalore, but I’ll bet you, and many liberals like you, have never been responsible for the well-being of dozens of families like many of this country’s small business owners are every day. While only those among us that are of Native American decent can rightfully claim they are not immigrants, most of us are not here “illegally” as you ignorantly stated. My ancestors, like those of millions of Americans, were proud to work to become American Citizens. How demeaning their sacrifices and hard work by offering amnesty and automatic citizenship to illegals will benefit all of America is beyond me. By the way, we are a drug free workplace, and although I agreed to hire that one Hispanic applicant pending his drug test, he did not pass. God Bless America!
June 22nd, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Well said Bob K
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Just because an employer hires a Hispanic worker does not mean he is paying below prevailing wages. I resent the obligatory label. Workplace safety and ethical conduct should not discriminate as to race or gender. This article points to the fact that the injured were illegal immigrants, however neglects to review the accident in a manner which would qualify it as a raciest incident or a cultural safety practice which could easily injure any worker; legal or not.
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
While I think illegal immigrants have broken the law for which there should be a consequence, that does not mean they have no rights. Just because someone has a criminal record does not mean they surrender all other rights. If you think otherwise, does that mean someone caught shoplifting has no rights? What about drug possession or writting bad checks or speeding? If you are convicted of one of these crimes, does that mean someone can kill you or beat you to a pulp and not be held accountable? No.
The point is - one act (immigration) has no bearing on the other act (unsafe workplace). As a Project Manager, I find it a failure that there were these serious injuries to begin with. Were the employers to blame for the pipe failure, or the falling materials ? - that is hard to say. Sometimes the employer cuts corners, sometimes the employees are carless and sometimes things happen. A safety culture is hard to develop and grow, and it costs money.
If the employers are to blame as the cause of these incidents, then the employees (legal or not) are entitled to be made whole again or at least be compensated.
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:36 am
Well written comment Scott the FieldBoss. Thanks for keeping the discussion open Fred and not censoring them. Even though I don’t agree with some of the comments I do like to read and consider the opposing viewpoints. Keep up the good work!
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:54 am
I’m amazed by some of these people calling others racist. I have reviewed every comment here, and have not been “struck” that any comment on here is racist. There have been comments about personal experiences with Hispanics, and I think that the Hispanic reference is just a condition of environment. In other words, there is a more common occurence with Hispanics just because of our border with Mexico. However, there are immigrants (legal and illegal) from ALL nationalities, and no matter what nationality, the illegal ones should get the heck out of Dodge!
I totally agree with Fred and defend him in the fact that he had no intentions of making this an immigrant issue (even though we all, including myself, made it out to be), but as he explained it, a tool to use to inform us of what is happening with regards to the law and safety. Furthermore, I would submit that those that accused him of such, should respectfully apologize.
Just more of my thoughts….
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:57 am
The employer probably didn’t do a very good job of checking out the illegal’s credentials and should be held accountable for that. But to pay outrageous settlements like these just encourages the illegals from continuing to sneak into this country in hopes of hitting the workers comp jackpot or even staging accidents to get enough money to live on for the rest of their lives back in their home country. I agree with Bill the Safety Man…….had they used a lawyer to get into the country LEGALLY, this wouldn’t be a news worthy story.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 am
I believe that if they were working for this company, and legitimatly got injurd due to unsafe working conditions they are entitled to compensation. However part of that compensation is also due to pay the back taxes that, as an illegal, they have not been paying, as well as any other back costs that legeal immagrents must pay to become citizens as well as back taxes/expences that citizens of the U.S. would pay on a day to day basis.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 am
I have working in the safety and risk management field for 22 years in Texas, but I am originally from NY. For the most part illegal aliens have been a problem in the US for the past 30 years. I am not condoning employing illegals or having a company break safety regulations. However, this is not the only problem. We all have to remember that we too are aliens to this great country. Most of our ancestors came from overseas or other countries (mine from Italy and England) unless you are an American Indian.
The hispanic workforce in the US has rose from 14.6 million in 1980 to 102.6 million in the last census (US goverments Census). Which means that the Hispanic workforce makes up 24.4% of the total workforce in the US. Morever, here in lies the problem for the past 10 years (Department of Labor / OSHA) statistics show that the hispanic workforce has accounted for over 60% of the workplace fatalities.
These numbers and percentages are not inline with the demographic percentages. The problem is these hispanic employees are doing these jobs to the best of their ability. I am not insinuating that they are stupid, but what I am saying is most of the time they do not understand the proper safety procedures, because of language barrier between the foremen and the workers and this is what needs to be corrected.
Yes we need to eliminate fraudulent employment in the US, and we need to cut down on the lawsuits. Moreover, we also have to remember that even though we may complain about these issues, we have the god given right to speak our minds and our points of view. The US is the greatest country in the world and if we lived anywhere else but here we would not have the ability to voice our opinions.
Let’s work together to make this country great again.
remember accidents hurt and safety doesn’t
Jim
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:48 am
It has been my experience that most new immigrants try to blend in and do not always understand the safety aspects of the job. They do what the others are doing right or wrong. They also fail most of the skills tests (comprehension)that go along with training, because of the language barrier. This is easy to overcome by using people who speak the same language as demonstrators. Immigrants need help to become safe workers the same as any other worker, just different methods of training.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 am
NYC Construction… what ever happended to “Union” Construction Workers? Prevailing wage was mentioned in only one comment. Where are the Trade Unions?
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Good words Cubana. However, it still amazes me how many people, irregardless of their level of schooling, knolwedge or experience in our world, fail to know what the Constitution of the US says about peoples rights. Our Constitution states that no matter what your citizenship, bottom line, a person physically in this country still has the rights afforded to any one else under the Constitution. Obviously there are laws that WE ALL must abide by. However, under the Constitution, anyone one from a tourist, resident or non-resident or even someone passing through on their way to another destination, has the right to sue for damages if they are wronged. As someone who has traveled the world I’ve realized that that’s what makes our nation great and different from many other nations and still feel, no matter what our country is going through, that it is still one that I am proud of. Having said that, I would caution people to do a little research before they speak. That way they can speak knowledgeably and it might just cause others to respect their opinion even more.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:06 pm
If the “employees” used falsified documents to obtain the jobs, then the courts should not award them a penny and should ship them back home ! It amazes me that even legal immigrants which do not speak English are given jobs where a company has to accommodate them instead of them learning to speak and understand English.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:55 pm
An old Navy saying is: “You gotta be smarter than the gear you operate.” The same holds true with safety, welding, hiring, whatever. We run a heavy fabrication shop, in the oil and gas business, in South Central Texas. Over half of our welders and helpers are of Hispanic origin. Several are Vietnamese. Some are recent arrivals, some have been here for years. We have completed 9 straight quarters without a lost time incident.
It’s not hard. We do our usual due diligence with respect to hiring new workers - including using the existing employees as interviewers. They can ferret out the ‘phonies’ in both the professional area and the immigration status area. They will find out things through the ‘local grapevine’ that we might never know.
We also obtain training materials in Spanish and Vietnamese - and then use the most bi-lingual of our employees to do the training. It is what any diligent corporate management should do. We believe that’s what Corporate Social Responsibility is all about.
June 24th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Lawbreakers should not be afforded certain ” constitutional rights”
June 24th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Wait until the great ole USA grants illegals amnesty; and no border control watch the flood gates open.
The financial burden the USA can not contain or even think about paying will bring this country to its knees. So yeah they need to be compensated but get ready for the backlash. There wont be enough middle class left to pay the bills, no matter how much we get taxed, oh and if you dont think your taxes are going to go up not to mention insurance premiums i got some ocean front proprty in Nevada for sale!
June 24th, 2009 at 10:10 am
All stated, change the laws to clarify what rights and privileges in the workplace an illegal gives up if not following the laws of this country and subsequently is injured in a workplace accident or for that matter any accident where tort action is obtained. It is difficult in most worker’s comp cases to prove the employee neglagent unless the employer has documented the compliance requirements to include hiring screens, orientations and safety training, Job Safety Analysis, etc; and, most importantly the disciplinary programs for non-compliance. Employers need to suck it up and manage a little tighter (documentation wise). If your right in your programs, then fight it in court with backup documents. Otherwise, the employer will simply loose the case or enter into settlement to restrict or control the monetary loss.
Additionally, Safety programs assist in the prevention of injuries, However, sometimes, the employee is just a fraud., legal and illegals alike.
Many of us who practrice safety and loss control know these cases are not based on race, but reflect the overall “legal environment” which palgues our society. I believe there is no quick fix.
These cases are distasteful to honest employers, employees, and to those those immigrants who are here legally trying to escape the social conditions of their own country.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Mac Maclaren - Thanks for keeping your post on the topic of SAFETY - not just another thinly veiled racist rant against our brown siblings from the south.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Coleto is correct the system is weighed against businesses and encourages fraud legal or not! Its a no win situation! You have to keep your people safe no matter what, but fraud is real, i dont think it had anything to do with this particular article but who knows?
June 24th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Muchas gracias, senor Mangalore.
June 29th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
I know this should not become a politically charged topic but, for those of you who feel that anyone working in America, legally or illegally, should be awarded the same protections I agree. But, I only agree with making sure they are protected. I definitely do not agree they should be awarded any monies other than what they would have rec’d in their own country for the same injuries. This is why they keep flooding across our borders…they are given the same rights as Americans without having to earn them! If this had happen in El Salvador they would have gotten…? Paying taxes with a fake SSN should not entitle them to anything, a crime is a crime.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
LOL, this makes me laugh, only in America could an illegal alien get injured and receive a huge settlement, while honest legal Americans who work hard their entire lives get injured and get nothing. UFB