Company takes ‘em bowling, then pays big for comp
August 7, 2009 by Fred HosierPosted in: Bizarre Accident of the Week, Injuries, Special Report, What do you think?, Workers' comp
PDF Imagine this: A company sponsors a Family Fun night of bowling for its employees and their families to improve morale. One employee injures his back while bowling. Does he get workers’ comp because this was an employer-sponsored event?
If you’ve read up on workers’ comp cases, you may have already guessed that the answer is yes, he did get comp.
And it’s cases like this one that are prompting states to rewrite their comp laws. Tennessee just did.
In this particular case, Robert Powell, a Cedar Rapids Gazette employee, was one of 75 workers who participated in a family night of bowling sponsored by his employer.
The day after the event, he felt pain in his back and left leg. He underwent two rounds of surgery. He was placed on disability, but later lost his job because of a dispute over whether he was able to work, according to an article in the Des Moines Register.
Four years later, the Iowa Workers’ Compensation Commissioner awarded Powell more than $100,000 in benefits.
The commissioner pointed to a Supreme Court ruling that says if activities that led to an injury were for the benefit of the employer, or for the mutual benefit of the employer and worker, they should be treated as work-related.
So, should you cancel that employee picnic or your softball team? Employers get in trouble when:
- employee attendance is expected
- the event takes place during normal work hours
- uniforms promoting the company are worn, or
- transportation is provided to the event.
About one in four states have taken legislative action to limit workers’ comp awards for injuries that happen at company-sponsored events.
Tennessee’s governor signed one such piece of legislation into law in June. The new law states, “No compensation shall be allowed for an injury due to the employee’s voluntary participation in recreational, social, athletic or exercise activities (including, but not limited to, athletic events, competitions, parties, picnics and exercise programs) whether or not the employer pays some or all of the costs thereof.”
There are four exceptions:
- required participation
- participation that benefits the company in ways other than employee health or morale
- events during work hours that are part of work duties, and
- injuries due to an unsafe condition during voluntary participation using facilities designated by, furnished by or maintained by the employer, and the company had knowledge of the unsafe condition.
Should employers have to pay for employees’ injuries during company-sponsored recreational events? Let us know in the Comments Box below.
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August 7th, 2009 at 9:04 am
I think if its optional, you should not get comp. These kind of suits are going to kill any employee function for a lot of businesses. We already cancelled our golf and picnic outings for the year with the economy. Now this is another reason not to have one.
-Fred, I gotta know…. where do you get some of these pictures?
August 7th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Our Production Editor, Katie Reing, should get credit for finding the photos used on the Special Reports on Safety News Alert.
August 8th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Hurt while bowling??? It never ceases to amaze me the petty thing people get “injured” while doing. Bet this fellow would get hurt doing laundry too…
August 10th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Kyle,
I bet you are a young 30 something I used to think the same thing until I hit my mid 40′s and now I am approaching 53 with years of sports abuse and need to understand that some things I just should not do. The only issue I have as a MGR is those not mandatory mandatory events !! You know the ones I am talking about the ones that if you dont show up you are not supporting teamwork and morale setting but if you do show up and dont participate you are not social. These types of things happen on a regular basis I just wonder if this guy was a manager or hourly employee?
August 10th, 2009 at 11:03 am
It goes even farther than this example. Let’s say the employer provides a free meal (an appreciation lunch for the employees’ good safety record, for example) during working hours or where attendance is expected. If an employee gets sick, chokes, etc. from the meal, resulting in a trip to the hospital, then the employer is liable for workers’ comp. If the employee brings his own food, however, the employer is not liable.
August 10th, 2009 at 11:09 am
As far as I know, the comp laws are there to protect the worker from employer negligence or carelessness. Assuming that the bowling night was held at a reputable bowling establishment, how in the world can anyone think that the employer was negligent or careless.
These days, employees want the whole world on a silver platter, and the courts are giving it to them!
August 10th, 2009 at 11:19 am
At my last employer, all of the employees asked to have a Basketball goal and hoop installed to participate in physical activity at lunch hour, off the clock, in Iowa. You know what happened next: an employee blew out his knee playing a pick-up game and my employer was stuck with the claim. Basically, the administrative judge stated that the injury happened during the course of employment there would have been no expectation of that injury if the basketball system was not in place. Iowa’s laws need to reflect those of other states that limit this type of ridiculous claim.
August 10th, 2009 at 11:26 am
This is ridiculous, and it’s just people duping the system and hurting those who have legitimate claims. This is almost as bad as the lady winning her lawsuit against McDonalds because she burned herself with the coffee she ordered! Give me a break! It also hurts all of us because it will prevent comopanies from hosting such events in the future. The laws everywhere need to be changed.
August 10th, 2009 at 11:45 am
I realize personal responsibility no longer exists but I guess common sense is going by way of the Dodo as well. I guess the question is: if I go out with my family on a Saturday afternoon for an activity such as softball and sustained an injury, am I entitled to comp or is it a matter of my personal insurance? If I joined a company sponsored softball team did I not volunteer for it? I assessed the risks, I understood the dangers of pulling, spraining or breaking something, it would be the same as a family outing, wouldn’t it? If I pull or sprain something at work, during work hours doing the job I’m paid for, well, that’s something else. I don’t see how it is the company’s fault because I’m trying to cling to my youth and wouldn’t hold the company responsible. Maybe it’s short sighted of me but that’s why I have supplemental insurance. It was my decision to join the team, not company policy. BTW I didn’t pull, break or sprain anything
August 10th, 2009 at 11:53 am
I have been associated with safety and workers’ comp management in several geographic areas of the U.S. and I must agree that the time for reform is long overdue. Many employers are using this reasoning (and the economy) as a reason to cancel many company activiies that could increase morale at a time when it is very needed.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
The article says he bowled 8 games the night before his claim. Common sense tells me that might be a little much in one night.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
If participation is voluntary, my response is NO! the employer is not liable and should not be held responsible for the individual,s mishap. People must be aware of their physical condition and limitations, not only on the job, but in everything they do on a day to day basis. I encourage employers everywhere to develop and have employees sign an acknowledgement form where they understand the employer is not responsible/liable for any injury resulting from employee voluntary participation during this ( picnic, baseball, basketball, bowling, etc..) company sponsored event.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Ridiculous, plain and simple. I don’t think it’s just to the employer - I mean, sure I feel for the guy that got hurt, but, be a man; you did this to yourself, the company didn’t do it to you. So what if it happened at a “company function”, the company paid for you to play and you got hurt playing. If you went bowling on your own time and hurt yourself - what are you going to do? Sue the bowling alley? “Judge, the bowling alley didn’t have a 16 pound ball that I liked, so I used a heavier ball that i did like and ended up hurting myself, thus, it’s the bowling alley’s fault for not providing enough 16 pounders”. There has got to be another reason, such as a previous back injury or something like that, that we don’t know about.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
What about company sponsored teams. Like a softball team? If it is organized within the company to play in a local league, wearing the company name, and someone gets injured, do they get comp? The team creates goodwill for the company, and shows community involvement, so it is for their benefit.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Some of this could be a shuffle between insurance companies.
The scenario:
The employee gets hurt playing basketball in the parking lot.
The employee goes to his Dr.
An insurance claim form is filled out for his medical insurance benefits where he finds questions that ask, “was the injury the results of an accident?” …”where?” …”how?” …”etc?”
The employee’s medical insurance denies the claim based on the fact he was on someone elses property.
The employee files on the employer’s property insurance.
The employer’s property insurance bounces it to worker’s comp.
The employee that would have accepted reimbursement from his heath care plan decides that he might as well get a few bucks to offset his lost pay, some of the pain, and what the heck?… a few more bucks for attorney fees… and a few more bucks just in case… and….and …and…
August 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I believe a number of you are not as familiar with the worker’s comp VS. private insurance game as you should be. The employee may have initially filed it as a personal medical issue but the insurance carrier saw something in the claim referring to the ‘employer sponsored’ event and challenged the claim, declining to pay until a worker’s comp claim denial was issued by the work comp carrier. We have had to file a number of claims for employees injured during “normal duty hours” for injuries that did not arise “out of and in the course of employment” by reasonable persons’ standards, just to get a denial from the comp review to submit to the private insurance carrier. Our state (Missouri) has re-written the comp laws recently to cut down on both abuse, and judicial discretion in decisions. Still, I don’t agree with all their positions. They have denied claims I thought were very legitimate, and approved others that make no sense to me. I guess that’s why they have an appeal process . . .
August 10th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
I am the Safety Champion at my job. I have to agree with Tom. I am a 51 yr old female and was told it was mandatory for me to go to the company picnic in which there were a lot of sports activities. My manager highly encouraged me to take part in the activities in which I had to explain to him I am not in physical shape to play tag football or even volley ball. In this case I didnt feel my job threatened but I know some companies do put on the pressure.
Rebecca, I disagree with you. Under my curcomstances if I had played and got hurt it surely would be on my employers responsibility. And I am not one to take advantage. I work hard to keep my self and others safe.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Rebecca is correct in saying that these types of law suites make it hard for the Employer host any activity to either boost morale. I think if it was a voluntary activities should be at your own risk.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I have seen several cases where employees went to the doctor and were asked the question whether it happened at work. They answered yes because that is where they were even if it was not work related. Their health insurance carrier will then pursue getting the workers comp to pay even if it was never the intent of the employee.
August 10th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Linda, I think you misunderstand. I think if an employee is coerced or required to play, that is not the same situation at all and would have to be looked at in it’s own light. In this case, however, that does not appear to have been what was happening. This person was there on a volunteer basis, and played a LOT of games. You, knowing you were not in the appropriate physical condition to participate in certain activities, used your common sense and did not participate, but still came to the event. You handled it correctly because you do work at being safe and using your head.
August 10th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
My boss must have been burned in the past. He won’t sponsor any sports activities, or allow a basketball hoop or exercise equipment on site. He is also wary of complimenting anyone for fear it be misunderstood. Frivolous lawsuits, with better odds for winning than the lottery, are taking all of the fun out of work!
August 10th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Quite obviously there are some of you that have never had a back injury… I was in the military and had a tire (on a 2-1/2 ton truck) drop and pin me between the trailer and the ground (due to broken equipment)… I was in my early twenties and in very good shape (I exercised on my own after hours in addition to mandatory PT)… I did not feel the affects of the injury until the next morning when I went to get out of bed and couldn’t… I now suffer arthritis in my lower back due to this injury… employers may not make it mandatory to attend these types of functions but they sure can make you feel sorry if you don’t… and if you get hurt and then lose your job afterwards due to the injury what happens to the employee… usually a back injury especially dependant on the seriousness of it will haunt you for the rest of your life… and dependant on how bad the injury is could affect later employment… most call this reckless suite but this guy went through two surgeries… what does that do to his ability to work and feed his family… yes it affects the insurance rates for the company but what about this guys life???? How does this injury affect him and his family? I’d prefer not to have the fun night out with the company rather than end up with a back injury as I am sure most would agree..
August 10th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
If the event is optional (non-mandatory) then the employee should not get Workmen’s Comp. My company hosts an “Employee Appreciation Picnic” every year on a Saturday. Employees sign up on a roster if they will be attending. At these picnics we have various games for employees and their families to participate in. Just like attending the picnic is not mandatory, activities at the picnic are not mandatory either.
I feel all companies, regardless of size, should make events like this non mandatory. This would help ease some of the burden.
August 10th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
The doctors and ambulance chasers I’m sure had a large part in this, as well.
August 10th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
The Judicial branch will be the down fall of this society. We have taken employee and personal accountability out of the decision making process. This case is a fine example of where we are heading. Participate at your own risk! The courts have encouraged people to file false claims through cases like this one. One thing for sure is that workers’ comp laws are one sided in all states towards the employee. We need judgges with common sense and not more wowrkers’ comp laws.
August 10th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Mary, I have had a back injury but it was my own fault and it was a work comp claim. The difference is I LEARNED from my mistake and never had a claim again. You see: I don’t like being injured; it affects my life away from work and I don’t want to have a work related injury dictating my lifestyle, as it should by the way( I teach all injured workers that any restrictions or modified duty given by a doctor must be follwowed at home too). I agree with Safe 7 and take it one step farther: organized labor will line the pockets of bleeding heart politicians t enact employee-favored legislation and not give it a second thought that every law that is legislated to make it harder to make a profit in this country, just pushes more jobs out of the US and over seas.
August 10th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Hey Mary, don’t you think it’s possible that this guy’s past personal experiences may have contributed to needing 2 surgeries and not just the bowling? If you went bowling and experienced a back injury that required surgery, would you attribute the need for surgery to the bowling or to your past experiences? I’m sure this guy had legitimate medical issues that lead to him being unable to work and ultimately lead to him losing his job, but why is it the employer’s responsibility to take care of him above and beyond his company benefits?
August 10th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
This one could be more fun than the various exchanges on the gent injured at the customer’s gym (which devolved into a long discussion on McDonald’s hot coffee).
As to this one - sure the employer is responsible. It is in the definition of the Worker’s Comp eligibility stuff. Folks tend to forget that WC is ‘insurance’ for which the company pays premiums. It is no different than any other kind of insurance - when ya need it, ya got it. Now, admittedly, if you have a couple of car crashes (whether or not it was your fault, sometimes) your rates go up - but that’s the way the way the cookie crumbles.
There is no such thing as a ‘risk averse’ strategy that works. In war, Worker’s Comp, or corporate ventures. Despite what some Washington Wonks would have you believe.
August 10th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
E.C.
I WOULD HOPE THAT THE COURT WOULD LOOK AT EVERYTHING…. PAST ISSUES AND INJURIES INCLUDED… I WILL ADD TO MY PREVIOUS STATEMENT.. I HAD NEVER HAD ANY INSTANCES WITH MY BACK AND IT WAS NOT DUE TO MY DOING ANYTHING OUT OF PRCEDURE… THE EQUIPMENT HAD BEEN DAMAGED AND THE DAMAGE HAD NOT BEEN REPORTED… ONCE THE NUT WAS RELEASED THERE IS A CRANK THAT YOU USE TO LOWER THE TIRE FROM UNDERNEATH THE TRAILER… THIS WAS INOPERABLE SO WHEN I RELEASED THE NUT THE TIRE DROPPED STRAIGHT DOWN ON TOP OF ME…. I WAS ALWAYS IN THE HABIT OF PROPPING A KNEE AND MY FREE HAND AGAINST THE UNDERSIDE OF THE TIRE FOR LEAVERAGE WHEN I RELEASED THE NUT.. THIS IS THE ONE THING THAT KEPT THE DAMAGE TO MY BODY FROM BEING A LOT WORSE AND PROBABLY THE REASON I DIDN’T FEEL IT UNTIL THE NEXT MORNING… THE TIRE WAS UNABLE TO DROP AT FULL FORCE..
I THINK THAT IN ALL CASES PAST HISTORIES SHOULD BE LOOKED AT BUT AS I’VE LEARNED NOT ONLY FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE BUT FROM BEING ON SAFETY TEAMS AS WELL, THERE ARE SOME INSTANCES WHEN JUST THE RIGHT MOVEMENT (DOESN’T MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU HAVE DONE IT IN THE PAST) CAN CAUSE A SERIOUS INJURY… I READ A POST EARLIER THAT REFERENCED AGE… THERE IS A POINT WHEN OUR AGE DOES PLAY A ROLL… BUT FROM THE INITIAL POSTING THERE ISN’T MUCH TO GO ON AND I HAVE NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK FARTHER INTO THE CASE… THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER FACTORS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT BEFORE A JUDGEMENT SHOULD BE MADE… I DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR INSURANCE AS A WHOLE… YOU PAY ALL YEAR FOR A “WHAT IF” BUT IF NOTHING HAPPENS YOU DO NOT GET A RETURN ON THAT INVESTMENT AND AS SOON AS YOU NEED IT THEY WANT TO JACK YOUR RATES….DOESN’T MATTER IF IT’S PERSONAL OR FOR BUSINESS… ONE OF THE BIGGEST RACKETS IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY…
August 10th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Larry, Your answer was one of the most concise answers on this site and exactly what I was thinking as I read the article I assist in managing Workers Comp for many companies and see this happening more and more with private insurers. If any of you have been to the doctors for an injury lately between 8am and 5pm, the first thing that the admitting nurse ask is if you were hurt at work, even before asking for an insurance card.
August 10th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Rebecca thank you for clarifying. I guess the story doesnt tell us enough to know any behind the scene conversations. With 75 people there, there probably was a little competitive spirit. 8 games is a lot, but not if the adreniline is pumping. He probably didnt feel it till the next day.
I do know ALOT of people scam the system for free payout. But I also believe most people dont Want to get hurt just to sue. I feel sorry for the guy in the article whether it was self inflicted or not, as Mary pointed out, his back is shot forever.
August 11th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Mary, you’re missing my point. It is unfortunate that you were injured while in the military, but is it your current employer’s responsibility to compensate you if you should experience additional back issues related to the original injury that just happen to arise while at your current job? I would guess you received a payment from the military for permanent impairment (I’m sure this doesn’t offset your burden in life, but thats the way it goes) if you have additional back issues it should go on the military, i.e. the employer responsible for your injury, not your current employer. Similarly, the employer in the noted case should not be responsible to pay for this guys back injury when he likely had previous issues that were the true cause.
August 11th, 2009 at 9:51 am
I could say something about nationalized health care reducing the blame game and insurance company shuffle, the draining of profits for US companies, the need to buy insurance for every turn of events and place that a person may go whether or not there is significant risk, etc….., but that might be thought to be a political statement. So, I wont say it. )
August 11th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Lets face it, some employees are looking for ways to have an employer pay them to sit at home, watch lawyers commercials and do nothing. These employee are the ones who ruin it for everyone else thus forcing employers to cancel events and sponsorships. As a Safety Manager, one of my goals is to try and weed those individuals out and prevent those types of accidents from happening but maintain good moral at the same time. Eventually, the good employees will bring forward the “problem children” and forcing them out. I dont want to sound mean about it but its the reality. Companies cannot afford to pay these high premiums, settlements and run a business at the same time in this economy.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Safety Chaz
You are very correct, good employees can make a difference by helping to bring forward the “problem children” when the proper culture is nurtured and developed. As a Plant Safety Manager I received a tip that an individual who reported a back injury during work, when in reality the injury was a result of this same individual moving pianos after work. (We even had witnesses to verify the piano moving.) Good honest employees can be encouraged to bring these matters forward in a discreet manner to help everyone when the proper culture is nurtured and developed.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
[...] a time when companies look for ways to boost employee morale in a sluggish economy, here’s a story that makes one think of the old adage “no good deed goes [...]
August 12th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I am an HR Manager for approx 500 employee’s. Last year we had an employee who stated that she had slipped in the breakroom ( on her non-paid lunch) and in the process had thrown out her back. There were no witnesses to this slip. She soon completed workmans comp paperwork, and it was deemed to be a ligitiment workmans comp case. The employee was on a non-paid lunch, but was still on the company’s property. Soon after she started to receive workmans comp pay, I accidentally recieved an ER statement, that she had fallen the night before and injured herself while bowling. Should the employee been held responsible to pay back all of the money that she received from workmans comp ? I thought so. There was a hearing held, and it was found that she had a fradulent claim, and she was immediately terminated. The company did not receive money back from the employee.
What if I had not received that note from the ER ? People now are sue-happy. There is always someone else to blame. People need to accept responsibilty for their own actions, this is not happening anymore in our society, it is always someone else’s fault. Company’s need to be protected better, and should be allowed to investigate more throughly, opposed to just taking someones word.
August 12th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Does anyone know…
We post the following information prior to each volunteer company event. Is anyone aware of any particular situation when a posting such as ours was used, an employee is hurt, and the company is still responsible? POSTING: “As a volunteer activity, the company will not be liable for the payment of workers’ compensation benefits for any injury which arises from your attendance.” Thank you.
August 12th, 2009 at 11:29 am
I agree Workers Comp claims are getting out of control. I had one employee who walked into a doorframe and broke her glasses…we paid to replace them (even after she told another employee that she couldn’t afford to get new glasses.)
Another employee drove a golf cart into a tree at a charity golf tournament (after hours, totally voluntary) we sponsored. Again, we paid his medical.
August 12th, 2009 at 11:36 am
E.C.
This article does not mention any previous injury or history on this employee… but does state: “The commissioner pointed to a Supreme Court ruling that says if activities that led to an injury were for the benefit of the employer, or for the mutual benefit of the employer and worker, they should be treated as work-related.” I would assume from this statement that during the four years it took before they awarded him his benefits that they had concluded that the injuries were due to his bowling night and not a previous injury… it also states that he lost his job due to a dispute over his ability to work… it does not say that the job loss was due to his behaviour, attitude, or work performance… was his ability or lack of ability to work due to this injury???
I do not agree with you that the military should be responsible for any injury to my back just because I have a previous condition…I currently work in an industrial environment..as I do not believe in getting something for nothing… The condition I now have is arthritis, so if I’m out and about in the mill and a piece of machinery brakes sending a chunk of steel into my back and I am injured then the military should be responsible because I had a previous condition… that previous condition would have nothing to do with it.. It should be investigated to see if a previous condition caused the problem not just assumed that because someone has a previous issue that the prior employer or the employee should be responsible..
I also read the article related to this posting… there is no mention in the original article of past issues and actually states his problems began the night of the bowling… it also stated this: ” In a company Web posting, it encouraged all employees to attend, saying, “Don’t make us cancel this event from lack of interest/attendance.” I believe that a statement such as this would make me feel obligated to go.. and that if I didn’t participate I might be looked at as not being a team player or loyal to the company… so just because this guy got hurt doing something fun doesn’t make the company any less liable than if he had been injured by faulty machinery working at his press…
Neither article mentions how long this employee had been working for the Gazette… I am very interested in knowing this…
August 12th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I was asked recently by one of our manager’s if our reduction in injuries was due to working safer or just better management of work comp; I said yes. Work comp is best managed when employees are told up front that all claims are investigated and, if found suspect or a doctor has ruled that causation was not during the course of employment, our carrier will immediately deny the claim.
I manage safety programs in a union shop and, like it or not, a union shop will try every method to make the company foot the entire bill for an injury that takes place away from the workplace.
What the current leadership of the union does not like is that I have been a union leader in the past, I know what methods are used and I have made it clear that I will vigorously fight bogus claims, tenaciously go after employees that do commit fraudulent claims but still show compassion for those legitimate injuries that occur and work diligently to find the root cause and prevention for the future.
I have also changed the focus from ‘the company is responsible for all safety issues’ to ‘ every employee has an equal responsibility for a safe work environment, regardless if it is the bargaining unit or company management.
Safety is an attitude. You coach your employees to abide by that attitude, instill the same sense of safe behavior away from work and how it affects their family when they are injured and hold managers and supervisors acountable as well for making sure they promote safety equally and unilaterally, with no exceptions. If employees do not abide by working safely then work towards removing them as an employee.
It works, our injuries are down 75% over last year and we are well below our NAICS industry average.
August 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
MG,
IMHO… Seldom do signed waivers and disclaimers absolve all liability, much less postings.
August 12th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
It strikes me that we can be a cynical bunch. I absolutely agree that employees who commit fraud should be not only terminated, but prosecuted. But perhaps, as some have suggested, there were extenuating circumstances in this case. Who knows?
As for the claim that “The Judicial branch will be the down fall of this society” all I have to say is SERIOUSLY??? Judges interpret and apply the laws created by the legislature to the best of their ability. If we as citizens don’t like the outcome of the cases being decided in the courts then we have to change the laws.
Yes there are those people who seek to defraud, but let us not dismiss every claim that occurs off the employer’s premises as a sham. We’ve all probably been “voluntold” for some supposed voluntary event (especially those in leadership roles). If an injury occurs under such circumstances, then maybe the company should be held responsible.
There has to be a balance between the interests of the employer and the employees. We can’t say that every off-premise claim is justified, but we can’t say that every off-premise claim is bogus either. Each claim has to be considered on its own merit to determine if the company should be held responsible.
August 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Thanks Safety Salamander. I guess I was hoping that wouldn’t be the response.
It’s unfortunate there are some looking for the easy answer, therefore making even the legitimate claims suspect. I guess the days of a hand shake agreement and a person’s word are now only heard of in stories told by our grandparents.
August 12th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Actual injuries while performing at work is a different subject people!!
These type of Workers’ Comp Claims are outrageous and hard to swallow! For any business but especially for a small business! States definitely need to look into rewriting their laws before these claims put us all under more financial strains with higher insurance rates. I am a very compassionate person, and my heart goes out to the employees that do get injured! However, there are employees that take advantage of situations, and milk the system… Making it harder on the honest hearted employees and an employer just trying to boost moral, keep afloat or god forbid be successful??!! Where is the balance in all of this? No one talks about the ignorance people have, nor how people don’t want to take personal responsibility for themselves and their own actions.
August 12th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Actually, Jamie, I believe several people have mentioned the need to hold people responsible for their actions, and that there is a problem because that is not done nearly enough. And, as I said before, it is very sad that people that do make bogus claims make it that much more difficult for someone with a legitimate claim. One reason is because time and resources are tied up in bogus claims, but more importantly, the bogus claims cause people to be much more cynnical and leary when a real claim does come along. So, these bogus claims (whether this one is or not) hurt both employers and employees. So, although it is more difficult in todays culture, both sides need to be working together toward a solution.
August 12th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
None of us knows what the true story is. This guy may have been a model employee and in great shape up until that point and now has to deal with back issues. I am just amazed and the tone of most of these messages and sure hope you are never my HR manager since you obviously judge before knowing the facts.
Back injuries are strange things and the #1 claim that can’t be proved in many cases. I know a college professor that picked up a small box of items on his desk weighing about 5 pounds and threw his back out. He wound up in a nursing home for 5 months recovering…he ran every day and was in great shape.
I woke up one morning yawned and stretched and herniated a disc! Of course I spent my youth totally trashing my body playing sports and in the military so my injury does not surprise me much.
August 13th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Back injuries are cumalative in most cases, not acute. Rarely does lifting a small box cause an injury. It probably was the “straw that broke his back”after years of poor lifting. Poor lifting techniques over time cause most back issues whether the lifting took place at home or at work. People need to do a better job of planning lifts and asking for help with heavy items. Picking up a 5# box is not going to be the sole cause of a back injury.
August 13th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Quick question - if an employer is designing a wellness program that includes physical activity challenges, (voluntary) should they get releases from the participants prior to participating? Something stating they have been checked by a doctor and are ok to participate, they are doing so voluntarily and will assume the risk if anything should happen to them?
August 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
GTS, I too was amazed at the tone of some of the posts. It would seem that perhaps some are more likely to hurt their backs by jumping to conclusions than by picking up 5 pound boxes.
No matter what the topic, if we would all take the time to listen patiently, collect all the real facts (not misinformation recieved via gossip or in a viral email for example) and have an informed and balanced conversation about what is reasonable and fair, we’d be much better off.
It is possible to be passionate about a cause or a topic without being irrational.
August 19th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Rebecca: The lady who was burned with McDonald’s coffee did file suit for the cost of medical treatment only, a jury set the huge award and it has not been paid. It was of course immediately appealed and denied. Even all these years later, people still insist on believing that because an award was made, that it was actually paid. Not so.
August 20th, 2009 at 8:53 am
I think the reason people refer to the McDonalds incident is not because of how much money she sued for but for the fact SHE ORDERED COFFEE, AND IT WAS DELIVERED HOT!!!! Now they have to put a caution on the lids for the idiots of the world. People like that should be sterlized.
August 20th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Jason, the fact that jurors awarded her should be what bugs you. It was the same with cigarette mfg’s law suites (anyone who started after all the warnings). We all know they are bad for you but I still see kids starting to smoke. I don’t care how many ads you see or if the cigarette co’s lied about whats in them, if you start smoking now you cannot blame anyone but yourself.
We now live in a society that feels all business owners are crooks and deserve what they get. It also amazes me how many people think that just because you own a company that you are rich and can afford it. I think my boss would laugh at that as he drives away in his ’02 dented Taurus with a bad tranny.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Yes, I was referring the the fact that she was rewarded in the first place. What idiot Juror thought she deserved that for burning herself with coffee? I don’t even drink coffee, and yet I KNOW it’s hot unless you ordered Iced Coffee. It’s just an indication of where court cases have gone and how much less intelligent and logical they are becoming.
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
No. Employers should not be held accountable for moral events that take place outside of the normal work schedule and off the employers premises. At what point do we start holding employees acountable for thier actions. Getting hurt bowling has nothing to do with the job and was an extra, fun benefit provided by the employer. An employer who is now punished for going above the minimum expected standards.
October 10th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
we just had a company outing at a bowling center (normal business hours) and the back of my knee hurts…might have to see if work comp is in order.
October 19th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Obviously, anyone who doesn’t understand how this type of stuff gaines momentum has not seen some of those lawyer commercials stating “Have you been hurt? Someone may be responsible”.
With predators such as these, it’s no wonder why everyone hates attorneys and why so many people head to court for things they normally would discount as their own failure of responsibility. Work Comp laws definitely are employee friendly and there are probably a great deal of lobbyists trying to keep it that way.
December 31st, 2009 at 11:02 am
[...] Company takes ‘em bowling, then pays big for comp [...]
January 6th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
I have a question for Rebecca & Tim. If you got injuried during a company function and you were going to be off work several weeks or even months with no income, what choice would you make?
Would you be willing to lose your car, your house or credit standing because you have no income due to your injury? Some people may have to look at this issue when making a choice on filing a claim. If it comes down to the family, I think most people are going to file a claim.
Reform is needed as to not give the person the oppertunity to make that choice. You can’t blame a person for thinking of his or his families well being over the company they are working for. In some cases, I’m this is the issue.