45 Responses to “OSHA reform: More criminal charges, higher fines sought”

1. Patrick Stimpson Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

   It has always bothered me that a company can show flagrant disregard for the health and safety of it’s workers, perhaps even kill some, and then get a fine of a few thousand dollars. Where is the motivation to avoid that? Most of those types just think they can avoid the ”Man’ and go on for ever. They will never even think twice until the consequences become so scary that they have to sit up and pay attention.

   I welcome real, serious penalties for an employer willfully placing his employees in avoidable danger.

2. Clint Randolph Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

   Certianly companies with good safety records might agree with the suggestions in the article, but OSHA complaince is more complicated now than ever before. OSHA is applying standards to industries in many cases they were never developed to regulate. Without spending tens of thousands of dollars hiring consultants for every move you make, getting even close to perfect compliance is virtually impossible. The courts are full of good companies trying to provide a safe workplace and defending against claims of unsafe practices they might have never even contemplated. I think OSHA has too much power in many cases. Giving them more is just going to punish small businesses who can ill afford the massive fines that could result from simply not knowing, and not having the resources to know that a given regulation existed.

3. Michael Ralston Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

   OSHA should have all ability to iniatiate fines removed from their job description
   Investigators are writing fines to finance their department, gaurentee their own jobs and remove the ability of companies to financially afford buying additional saftey equipment and a huge majority of fines are for administrative shortcomings ( posting etc)
   OSHA investigators should instead work with safety managers and provide additional expertice and advice to current saftey plans and work with insurance companies (whose rates reflect the safety record of a company) to establish rewards and/or penalties through their rate structure

4. Doug Easter Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

   Until the employee can also be fined, the entire burden is borne by the employer. Unlike the huge corporations like Ford or Wal-Mart, fines are absorbed by the companies, not passed on to the consumer. Employees still refuse to tie-off, wear the proper PPE even when it is given to them. Every death and serious injury I have investigated was caused by employee misconduct and / or indifference, not for lack of training, lack of care or lack of enforcement.

5. r chappell Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

   I personally think OSHA should be quiet right now. They do good things but right now is NOT the time to penalize businesses further.

6. Ron Cross Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

   I think it is a good step. If all things are equal. it will be great. Having all companies under the same ground rules for safety is important. Contractors who provide a safe place to work, hours of training, multiple programs to promote safety, etc. will have level the playing field with those that don’t. However, one other area that is not level is the quality of OSHA inspectors. I have experienced some that were very professional and I was impressed with their knowledge and experience. I have met too many that were not.

   If we increase the severity of fines, then OSHA inpectors have to do a better job of issuing those fines. I get tired of an inspector telling me how great our safety program is, how pro-active we are. How we are doing things they have never seen before, and then issue me a citation for a non-issue that is later reversed in an informal conference. It gets expensive and we still have it on our record on the OSHA web site.

   Ron Cross

7. Steve Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

   We do not need more government. Let’s get to the reality of the situation. OSHA has been supported by the unions ever since its inception. The Democractic Party has been heavily supported by the unions. The Democrats won so now it’s payback time. OSHA supports itself and justifies itself by penalizing companies with enormous fines. Most of the time, the inspectors do not even know what they are looking at. They come to our project sites with an attitude that suggests that we are not doing ANYTHING to improve the safety of our employees. You cannot learn industry and construction safety from a book. You have to know these businesses. Years ago, this might be a different situation with irresponsible companies but not now. Training and regulating is at an all-time high in the private sector. Employee acceptance of safety practices is also very strong. But it is the individual employee that is most often the root cause of accidents. You cannot regulate and/or fine companies to where behavior and attitude change will occur among stubborn employees. Larger fines waste so much money that could fund more employee training and safety equipment purchases. Take your punishment to the violators and stop wasting tax-payer money on the companies that are proactive in safety.

8. Rick Bleier Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

   I think OSHA should be given a significant increase in funding with a requirement that the money shall only be used for education.

   I agree that touching the employee would be a significant step toward achieving compliance. But employers don’t want the government controlling their employees.

   Perhaps if OSHA required the offending employee to attend an appropriate OSHA class, and prohibited the company from compensating the employee for the time, but required the employer to pay the out of pocket expenses for the training, all would be well served.

9. Dan Howard Says:
   January 19th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

   Regulatory agencies already have too much control over our business, all in the name of “it’s for our own good.” I guess we are just too not bright enough to recognize good business practices for ourselves.

   Every employer I have worked for believed that safety, and taking care of their employees, was just good business, and didn’t need threats of criminal or heavy financial penalties hanging over their heads to do the right things. In spite of their good intentions, the managers live in fear that a government agency or lawyer will show up and find something they overlooked or didn’t know about, and may go to jail or be forced to pay heavy fines.

   That fear is great enough that they pay people like me a lot of money to help keep track of new rules and laws that come up, and help them stay in compliance with the stacks of things they must do. It creates a financial load on already burdened businesses that gets heavier each year. At some point, fewer and fewer people will be willing to go through the hastle of owning a business.

10. Terry Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    No – OSHA does little to put any responsibility on the employee, an employee can blaintently
    violate, and there’s no OSHA penality except to the employer – employer must discipline them
    which is not wrong, but employee needs to share in safety. This method also blatently allows any
    employee to “set up” an employer without any repurcussions to the employee by OSHA.
    Until OSHA makes the responsibilities for employer AND employee equal – NO I do not support
    increasing anything from OSHA.

11. Joel Nystrom Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    OSHA should be eliminated. In a country that was founded on freedom and liberty, Government has no legitimate right to use force, fines and imprisonment against its business owner citizens to achieve its political aspirations. Let’s face it; OSHA is not really about worker safety. Any worker and any employer can create a reasonably safe work environment without OSHA. OSHA is about the government creating the illusion of dependency among workers. The politicians want the workers to think that the employer is uncaring and incapable, so the worker needs to vote for the socialist politicians who will protect them from the evil employers. That’s what OSHA is really all about, and obviously this Uhlmann character is part of the scheme.

12. Steve Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    This is not a good idea. OSHA already has more unchecked power than it should have in the U.S. and they have no power in foreign companies. Thus they can only punish, penalize and imprison U.S. employers. The result, companies shut down in the U.S. because of the cost of doing business here and move to foreign soil. This does no one any good except for the foreign workers. But, the penalties currently exist to punish the bad employers. There still needs to be allowances for “accidents” since no matter what an employer does, or tries to do, these accidents will occur since the employer can’t fully control the worker or the environment no matter how many regulations are placed on them. Putting someone in jail who was a good employer is not justice and does not help the American worker or the U.S. economy.

13. Bobby Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    I think this is a bad idea in the middle of the economic crisis we are facing. One of the biggest problems with OSHA and our government that empowers it is the fact that most of these people have never had a real job or run a business and have no clue what the real world is about.

14. John Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Criminalization on top of huge penalties is paramount to communism. Fines are already huge deterrents, especially given the current economic climate. Osha’s fundamental breakdown is the application of penalties after the damage is already done, lets add insult to injury so to speak. Enforcement officials are graded by the amount of fines they generate, not by the good work accomplished in the true mission of Osha. The entire system is fundamentally flawed and the money would be better utilized by making free, penalty and repercussion clear, knowledgeable consultations available to employers instead of kicking the accident victims after the fact!

15. Dave Tuhy Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    After 20 years as an oilfield safety supervisor and 20 years as a business manager, I feel that I have experienced firsthand the complete disregard for safety policies many employees exhibit. I will not be able to continue as a manager of any kind knowing that one of my employee’s actions had the potential of sending me to jail. I’m really glad I’ll be able to retire soon.

16. Kicker Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    If only “bad” companies were penalized, then increasing fines and penalties would be OK, but that is not the case. In many cases, companies try to “do the right thing” but through employee misconduct, lack of knowledge, or simple human error, incidents, injuries, or even death, can occur. Companies who have done their best shouldn’t be treated as harshly as those who wantonly disregard the health and safety of their employees.

    Another problem in handing such power to OSHA inspectors is that, as OSHA becomes increasingly politicized, we are likely to see OSHA being used as a tool to punish companies that don’t follow the Washington script. We are already seeing this from the EPA, and it’s unlikely that OSHA would fail to follow suit.

17. dave Lemke Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    My hat goes off to asll those who beleive the answer is not bigger fines to build bigger government. OSHA could simply place a sort of lean for closure of a business and force the Guilty company to pay for mandatory training. Force owners and Company officers to sit in the same rooms as there employees and sit through the training that should have been done in the first place, Put the money wear it stands to do some good. Let them pay the wages and fees for the training that should have been done already. If they do not want to pay for training and can not or will not then close the doors and do not allow those guilty to ever open another business without a proven training program. I beleive a negligent company will already have enough ambulance chasing attorneys with there families and injured employees all looking to retire. If OSHA and these state run Safety programs want ot be involved in helping resolve the issue then let them help resolve wear the blame lies based on the training an employee was provided, whether or not the foreman or Superintendent was pushing unsafe practices inwhich case a company is guilty and then let civil court deal with it. On the other hand we all need to be more responsible for our actions. Those who choose to make bad decisions and were taught better and knew better should bare the responsibility as well. Of course companies who allow these type of employees to repeat the same poor choices over and over again are again at least partially responsible but if you are in a union environment or a large company it is almost impossible to terminate an employee for anything. The system needs to get real and put blame were the blame belongs. Just understand this . If foreman and supers can be sued for the mistakes that there subordinates choose to make then these folks are going to need more money or company provided mal-practice. Attorneys will love that tthought! I say OSHA’s job is to enforce training and provide or insure the training happens. The only reason folks want to penalize business is the money there and they want it. We all pay enough taxes and government needs to back up and make people be responsible to each other. not collect more funds to build a bigger beauracracy. Please excuse the rambling. Just a guy that does not beleive I need government or anyone else to tell me how to live or what is right or wrong. Fining some company for what may or may not be there fault is not right. Put blame were blame is do. The buck should stop were the mistake was made. Not through six layers with deeper pockets just because there are deeper pockets.

18. Kenny Says:
    January 19th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    I agree with Doug Easter. Until there is a commitment from the employee to support the concepts, provide the input for corrective actions that is generally ask from all safety professionals, and inspectors to provide feedback as to where we can improve,… then they will always have the upper hand in prosecution of the senior management. The owners commit to providing the training, ppe, equipment, and staff to provide guidance, and assistance where needed. There are some great companies struggling with the answer as to how we can make a safer workplace, and in my humble opinion, the employee mis-conduct is a bain to us all. With the economy going in the direction it is headed, we are increasingly faced with fraud from worker’s compensation to ride out this economic storm.

    Employees are getting coached in every language as to how to get something for nothing, and lawyers play a major role in the ‘Mis-Conduct’ attitudes. It is err apparent that the employee faces no consequences for thier actions except to lose a job, and go somewhere else to try again.

    I really know a lot of good personnel in the field, staff, and owners that are committed to a safe workplace. My comments are not to those who do a great job or even good at making a workplace safer. I have been in the shipyard industry, worked offshore, construction and 16 years with two (2) world players in the chemical industry. No employee wants the pain of getting hurt, but if there is no repercussion for their roles and responsibilities, then there will always be an innocent person hurt in the end, whether it is prison, fines, or pain.

    As Steve said above with respect to OSHA’s unchecked power, and comments from others concerning lack of knowledge in OSHA from others only provides an open door to prosecution. Employee’s and Companies alike should share the successes and penalties.

19. Forist Says:
    January 20th, 2009 at 10:53 am

    I have worked in the pulp & paper industry for over 30 years during that time I have observed both salary and hourly personnel take short cuts in the name of getting it done. As an example a tradesman climbed into cyclone without lockingout or even wearing a harness. It would have taken a 5 minutes longer to meet the SOP written for the task yet, this employee willingly and knowingly bypassed the safety procedure because it was going to take “more time” than it was to correct the problem. Had someone turned on the cyclone he would have been trapped and killed. The employee was reprimanded and so was the supervisor who was unaware of the employee’s action.

    I am a firm believer in safety training, documentation and penalizing companies that fail intentionally to protect their employees. OSHA however, needs to take into consideration the actions of employees and the role they play when it comes to safety. Employees who flagrantly push aside safety practices and cause themselves or others to be harmed should be penalized as well, especially if there is documentation that shows they have been trained. Management needs to communicate that safety is not a one sided deal in which the company provides the PPE and training. Employees must accept responsibility for personal safety and the safety of fellow workers, help to enforce it, and report situtations that are unsafe. In addition employees must refuse to perform task in which there is no safety procedure in place to assure the well being of employees and property.

20. Diane Says:
    January 20th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    We are in the contruction industtry, it is my opinion that you can only train and give employees the proper PPE to a point. After that, if the employee “willfully” ignores safety precautions the employee should be responsible for themselves, and others they endanger. We had a case where we were redoing a 2nd floor, and the existing floor was so badly damaged you couldn’t walk on it safely. We brought the safety harnesses out, tied the area off, basic “height safety”stuff. Do you know we had some employees take the time to put the saftey harness on BUT not tie themselves off?…Come on, that isn’t the EMPLOYER. That is just a careless individual. Of course we held an “emergency” meeting and went over height safety AGAIN and would not allow employees back to the site if they were caught doing that again, blah, blah, blah. To sum up-I think OSHA should investigate ways to be able to hold employees responsible too.

21. Angelia Says:
    January 20th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    I think some people may be missing the point. The article, and the interview that spawned it (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/mcwane/interviews/uhlmann.html), states that an employer who “willfully” and deliberately” commits safety law violations that cause death or serious injury should have the prosecution of the offender upgraded from a misdemeanor to a felony. How can that not be viewed as positive?

    And yes, I do agree that the criteria need to be firmly established. As previously stated, the inspection standards deviate from one OSHA inspector to another. Are there companies out there that have a blatant disregard for workers’ safety? Yes, and luckily they are few and far between (I had a plant manager tell me once, regarding a migrant worker’s injury, “those people are tougher than a cur dog and there’s more where he came from”). Should those companies and the people who “willfully” allow these things to happen be held criminally liable for that blatant disregard? In my humble opinion, yes. And should workers who “willfully and deliberately” violate safety rules and regulations be held to the same standard as the employer? Again, yes.

    I also think Kenny hit the nail on the head. There seems to be a preponderance of people trying to “get something for nothing”, with the legal system helping all along the way. Lack of respect for safety, and the long term consequences of individual actions, becomes secondary to a big money pay-off. Perhaps the change doesn’t need to be with OSHA, but the overall justice system. When a woman can spill a cup of coffee in her lap while driving and be awarded millions of dollars because she “didn’t know it was hot”, then the problems go much bigger than this forum.

22. Dan Howard Says:
    January 20th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    A while back, one of our companies was visitited by an OSHA inspector. He found a chop saw, with a missing guard and charged us with a “Willfull”. One of the mechanics had removed the guard because it was bent and was hard to work with. Rather than report it, he took it off. A busy foreman had noticed it missing and was planning to replace it, but hadn’t done it yet.

    The inspector said that since we knew about it and hadn’t done anything about it, we were therefore neglegent.

    An employee “deliberately” removed the guard, and we were “neglegent” for not fixing it or placing it out of serve, and were charged for “willfully violating a safety rule”. If an employee were to have been seriously injured or killed, it seems to meet the criteria for criminal proceedings. Does the busy foreman, or his manager deserve prison time?

    When we allow any agency to have that much power over us, we run the risk of having something that feels good and initially sounds wonderful turn into a nightmare. i.e. “Punish the bad guys, becuase they deserve it” or “How can that not be viewed as positive?” These laws always have unintended consequences and eventually go beyond the original intent. One activist judge who hates corporations makes makes a ruling, and if it sticks, becomes precidence for the next case.

23. Keith Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Let’s see if I got this right: An employer/company with an outstanding safety record, great reputation loses an employee (because the employee was negligent), gets huge fines and the owner goes to prison for 8-10 years? You have got to be kidding me!!!! These proposed new OSHA rules are way too “Orwellian” for me. And another thing: These proposed penalties are going to put a hard-working, very reputable owner in prison with murderers, rapists, drug dealers???!!!!!! Think about that!!
    Instead of implementing these draconian penalties on businesses and corporations, please put all the time, money and resources in education NOT make felons out of innocent business/corporation owners!!!!!!

24. Kyle Says:
    January 23rd, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    With the exception of a few situations, we all agree that most if not all safety is dependent on the human behavior or unsafe act, which has as many varibles that influence it as there are grains of sand on the earth. That being said, there is no be all end all regulation, fine, consequence or etc… that will control the actual safety of each worker or insulate them from every hazard. It has to be a combination of different control measures working in concert to mitigate the severity and or likelihood of a worker getting injuried on the job.
    While money is not the only answer, it should be a significate factor to improving the safety of an employee, engineering controls first, work pratices next and PPE last, according to OSHA. So yes increase the fines but make the company put the fine money in an account for thier own safety program and as a part of the fine make the company show use of that money to improve their own safety culture. Or put it in a general fund where by other companies can access the money for safety improvements that they can not afford (understood that it would be a more involved management of a fund of this nature).
    Yes the culpable mental state of the individual should be a factor in determining who gets to share in the penalties for safety citations. If it is going to be a crime then all who particpated should be punished. If a person robs a bank and kills someone in the process and the driver of the getaway car only drove the car, it does not matter, they both go to jail for murder. Same with a safety crime, there is no justice in letting the actor of the safety violation go free and putting the manager/ supervisor in jail. OSHA already defends employees who refuse to perform work due to unsafe conditions.
    Safety should not be a barganing tool for the security of a persons job, union or non union. If a person shows a factual proven pattern of disregard for safety, be it failure to follow SOPs, OSHA regs, company policies regarding safety then the company must have the right to control the situation by having the authority to remove the person from the workplace to protect the safety of themselves and other workers. The behavior of each person can not be absolutely controled by the company or mangement, but the company and manger can remove the person from the situation. Failure for management to act on that fact alone should be a penalty in and of itself.
    Obviously there are many combinations of ways to protect the safety of all workers. No doubt that safety is every persons responsibility and all persons who disregard that fact in whatever capacity should be held accountable using different and just methods to accomplish a workplace that is truely free of all recognized hazards.

25. Dan Howard Says:
    January 26th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Kyle’s last paragraph sounds and feels so good. I can see this being quoted in soundbites by lawmakers on the evening news. However, we must consider the unintended consequences of giving a government entity such a mandate, and the power to enforce.

    Example: Transportation – One of the top 10 most dangerous occupations is driving trucks/transporting goods on the public highways. Lots of recognized hazards there. What measures would it take to eliminate all of them, and where do we draw the line? In order to eliminate them all, you would pretty much have to shut down the entire transportation industry. Hazards eliminated and mission accomplished, right? How would this affect other businesses, and are we willing to allow this to happen?

    Be careful what you ask for in government. You may get it.

    George Washington said – “Government is not reason; it is not elequent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”

26. Angelia Says:
    January 30th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    http://www.khou.com/business/stories/khou090115_jj_osha-accidents-inspections.79404e3.html

27. Robert Karp Says:
    February 2nd, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    There are two sides for OSHA. OSHA themselves do not to the fining. There is a department within OSHA that conducts the enforcement.

    If you have doubts to whether or not you company is in compliance you can call your workman’s comp to send an representative out to inspect.

    Also understand that what OSHA is getting established now is already in effect in Europe. Europe has a much stricter safety enforcement then here in the States.

    I agree with the changes. If someone dies then someone goes to jail.

    If you are the Supervisor, then you are directly responsible for the safety of the people under you. The employees that are in violation of a safety rule is in need of more training. It is up to the supervisors to deal with it. I see all too much of the Supervisors thinking they can leave it up to the safety manager to take care of it.

    The Safety Manager has done his/her part by getting the information out there by way of safety meetings and routine inspections. It is up to the Supervisors to enforce the rules.

    Fact of the matter is, it is the Supervisors that will face jail time. If the Safety Manager is slack in doing the training and indoctrinating people then he stands to be sued separate from the company. The company itself can be sued.

    Most of you Supervisors won’t believe this until it actually happens to you. This is especially sensitive if you have machinery such as forklifts involved.

    Companies don’t put much into Safety like they should. Many have to watch their costs especial in today’s economy but what many general managers don’t understand is that an injured employee costs them more then just the insurance payment. There is the hidden costs that they don’t see, such as lost time an having to train someone to fill in for the person that is out. There is the added wages that go into tending the person by supervisors and such that have to fill out reports and investigate the accident.

    For the person that stated that they should do away with OSHA, maybe you ought to go work in a coal mine without any respirator.

28. Dan Says:
    February 2nd, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    So, we should all become good little socialists, because Europe has done it? I can’t wait.

    Robert, you said “I agree with the changes. If someone dies then someone goes to jail.”

    In our industry, we employ truck drivers. 200 drivers head out each day on 200 different routes. Most of our injuries and fatalities happen because the employees fail to follow rules and practices they were trained to do. Unless we hired 200 supervisors to follow each driver every day, then enforcement is difficult. If one of our drivers fails to buckle a seatbelt before driving a truck off a cliff, walks behind another truck that is backing up, of falls off his truck while tarping a load, then people like you would want a supervisor to go to jail because they didn’t enforce the rules. Perhaps, someone from upper management should be imprisoned, because they didn’t hire the 200 supervisors.

    If laws like this are passed and enforced, then there will be a mass shortage of people willing to become a supervisor, or prices of everything will skyrocket.

    Some would argue that saving one life is worth any cost. If that’s true, then why don’t we cut speed limits on the highways to 5 MPH. Wouldn’t that save lives? I wonder why we don’t do that?

29. Robert Karp Says:
    February 2nd, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    The Truck driver is responsible for everything around his truck and is his own supervisor.

    I’m referring more in the field of manufacturing. Where people have someone watching over them.

    A forklift operator is responsible for the safety of all those around him. Often times a forklift operator will start backing up without first looking behind him or honk his horn. If he were to hit someone that forklift operator is going to get into trouble, but so will his supervisor for allowing him to operate that forklift in the unsafe manner to begin with.

30. Kicker Says:
    February 2nd, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    While Supervisors do have some level of responsibility if they allow/condone unsafe work practices, their control is limited to motivation (positive or negative), or termination. If an employee engages in chronic unsafe behavior, then termination is possible. But if the actions are only sporadic, then the termination process will be extended over months, or years, and rarely be successful. Ask any union steward or lawyer!!

    And Robert’s assertion that Supervisors are in constant oversight of their employee’s actions/activities is belied by the modern work environment, with self-directed teams, wide spans of supervision, and flattened organizational structures. Supervisors no longer sit on the shoulder of their employees in most plants, and they have their own responsibilities and work to complete.

31. Robert Karp Says:
    February 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    When there is an accident or even if it’s just a compliance inspection, the OSHA inspector will want to see the companies documentation first.

    If they see that the Supervisor is playing an active role in enforcing the company’s safety policies they will leave him alone. The tell tale that the supervisor is not enforcing safety is by the lack of safety violation write-ups. When it is apparent the the Supervisor has been playing an active role they will hold the person causing the accident liable for their negligence.

    If a company representative tells the OSHA inspector that they don’t have anyone that conducting themselves safely, all the inspector has to do is look around him and can see the signs that he’s being fed garbage. A couple indications would be skid marks left by a forklift or the scratched paint on the forklift.

32. Leo Richardson Says:
    February 10th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    It’s about time.

    The punishment should fit the crime and knowingly allowing someone to possibly get seriously injured or killed is worth more time in prison than a minor violation.

33. William S. Fink, CIH, CSP Says:
    February 10th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    OSHA Reform needs to look at forcing “bad actors” out of the marketplace and into an industry where they cannot hurt or harm anyone. The onus needs to be placed on fair and equitable bidding competition and requiring players in the construction industry to have in place high quality EHS programs. Owners that hire sub-grade and low-quality contractors to work on their job-sites must be held accountable; fined and held liable for maiming injuries and deaths. When the owner and contractor have that relationship of understanding safety is as critical as quality on the job, then we all see success. Hopefully, the infusion of federal stimulus funding will bring a higher degree of expectation of quality and safety performance.

34. Howard Childers Says:
    February 10th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    I agree that most accidents are caused by trained employees ignoring rules and that they too should be held accountable and fined.
    However I have seen to many times employers that allow unsafe practices and conditions and do nothing to force a change and are part of the problem, generally small employers and they are sometimes the low bidders, hence lack of safety and training.

    Building owners in construction should demand compliance from their contractors and consider that they to could be drawn into civil action by attornies representing contractors employees who are injured on the job site.

35. Barry Says:
    March 3rd, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Safety is the most misunderstood part of any and all companies. My consulting has revealed that 99.9% of all companies treat safety as profit/loss issue. There is no question that safety will make money when applied correctly. But this very statement is NOT the issue. And increasing fines or criminal penalties is not the answer- this just adds to the concept of profit/loss. Safety is an organism that grows and matures or remains stagnet or expands abnormally or any other number of configurations, all depending how it is feed and watered. If safety is established and nurtured for its own use, as an integral componet of a company, then safety will be effective. And then, and only then, can the results be judged as part of the comany and its employees.

36. Paul Says:
    March 31st, 2009 at 11:51 am

    The number of OSHA regulations is overwhelming and extremely complex.
    Running a small business is very difficult, and small businesses are extremely important to the economic health of our nation. The type of search and destroy tactics that OSHA deploys is a definite deterrent to any small business that would like to expand and do business the USA.

    As a employer trying to do our best to provide good employment and a safe place for our employees to work, we find ourselves in an environment of ever increasing difficulties. For American manufacturing to survive OSHA should work with companies to improve safety and not attempt to put them out of business with their immediate exorbitant fines and seemingly little concern about the health of the American Companies that fall in their tracks.

37. Wm Says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    Paul – OSHA compliance, just like all federal and state government regulatory compliance structures, does not have to be overwhelming and complex. For example, hire consultants and specialists to assist you with the winding world of government regualtion. If you have a tax issue you bring in your CPA, if you have an air permitting issue you bring in your RPE (Registered Professional Engineer) and if you have an occupational safety & health issue you bring in your CSP/CIH (Certified Safety Professional Industrial Hygienist). Designing a compliance program to meet the needs of your small business is GOOD BUSINESS. OSHA – if they come into your place will be able to see you have taken the effort to set up an EXCELLENT program designed and supported by a professional team of dedicated, experienced and certified OEHS professionals. This displays your effort at making the Good Faith effort to comply with their minimum standards. You can even take things to the next level and start implementing Best Management Practices (BMPs) and start using this mind set and these techniques to look forward to ISO certifications and grow your small business. Safety does not have to be a P&L issue. It has to be a value that you embrace within the structure of your business plan. By looking at Safety as a Value the P&L issue disappears because safety is embedded in your operation as a non-compromising factor. Good Luck!

38. forest Says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Wm, I agree in part with you but as a former owner of a small business I know first hand that setting up a comprehensive safety program is a responsibility, an expense and in itself an insurance. The reality of it is that employees need to accept that safety is alos their responsibility and to depend on work place procedures, engineered devices and supervisors to keep them whole is being naive. As for hiring safety consultants in a small business that is prohibitive and if nothing else it takes away monies available for safety. The best a small business can do is enforce safety training, assure that safety devices are being used and not side stepped. Failure of employees to comply should result in termination after retraining fails to correct the behavior. Documentation of the training and efforts to correct behavior or devices should be documented and posted.

    OSHA penalities should go into a correction account that would be funded by the employer for the benefit of safety for his employees. Failure to correct the issues should result in managerial penalties that impact the individual’s wallet and should include the employee if it is shown that he/she intentionally and knowingly contributed to the problem. Safety is everyones responsibility and so should be the penalities.

    The first rule of safety is to be aware of ones surrounding and the devices one must deal with. The second rule is to correct the unsafe condition, through work place procedures, engineered devices, training an duse of PPE. Sometimes everything we do and can do isn’t enough.

39. Robert Says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    As long as you keep your training records up to date and diligent in enforcing your company policies in safety, OSHA will be satisfied with the companies performance. You can’t hold the employees hand all the time to ensure they are observing safety. Safety is something that is not on their minds, it’s getting the job done to please the supervisor. They get in a hurry.

    Punishment isn’t always the answer. Finding incentive programs that keeps safety on their minds is something to look into.

    Forest, I’ve been told many times that for every dollar invested in safety saves you $6 on the bottom line. To figure that out you have to realize all the hidden costs associated with an injured employee. The costs of workman’s comp, the cost to train someone to fill in for them. The missed work time. It depends on the severity of the injury but if you just consider what it would cost you if someone should break their hand on the job you can get an idea.

    There are weekly rewards programs that are better then an annual safety incentive bonus. Just something to think about.

40. Wm Says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Forest – Thanks for the insight. I should have mentioned that spending money on WC insurance will also possibly buy you a block of consulting services from your carrier. Depends on your coverage and your carrier. You can also take advantage of the various state and/or federal OSHA consultation programs in order to assist in getting your safety & health programs up and running. One does not need to open one’s wallet to high dollar consultants when there are other resources available. Just make sure they are experienced and have a review by the managing director who should be a certified OEHS professional. You have an interesting view on how OSHA fines should be applied and used. It is beneficial and would be useful to the SB owners if applied in a set-aside fund. Can we really expect OSHA to reform and be kinder and gentler in this new administration? Everything I am reading indicates that OSHA is getting the marching orders to bring the hammer down on industry. I also agree that the employee needs to take responsibility and this is where behavior-based (or value-based) safety can be applied. Cultivating safety down at this level and having it come up through the ranks can be very effective rather than rapping down with a hammer. There is a time and place for discipline too, the balance lies in using it correctly and judiciously. Employees are a valuable asset, we spend a great deal of time and money training them and investing in them. They do tend to be the unknown factor in many equations. Human nature invariably plays a huge part in many accidents. The Safety Professional’s constant challenge is to challenge that aspect of our human nature to stay safe. It is a fact of life that we all deal with and there are no simple answers. Info exchanges like these do help. Thanks!

41. forest Says:
    April 10th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    WM and Robert, thanks for the input. Our crews come from all over the country, with diverse backgrounds. Some of these individuals I may never get to meet. We’re in the skill craft labor industry serving power companies across the U.S. As part of the companies mandate is that our field supervisors hold tailgate safety meetings the start of each shift. They discuss safety concerns with regard to work and what and how it has to be accomplished. PPE is stressed, as well as lockout/ tagout and confine spaces that maybe encountered during the shift. Anyone that has safety concerns are asked to bring it up before the crew, since evryone can benefit from it. We have a good safety record and work hard to keep it that way…currently we are mandating all of our employees to complete the OSHA 10 Construction Course with the hopes that awareness will keep everyone thinking about personal safety and the impact it has on others.

42. Nestor Arboleda Says:
    April 28th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    I am ready, but most of this responders are correct and wrong…but some of you are out of line! Lets face it. I work with lots of workers and few of them follow up rules and regulations after been taken the topics in training…but they get scare when is enforce the rules and regulations internally by the concience of the company and management they work for it. Zero tolerance! Safety record outstanding, I am proud of that! The use of PPE sometimes is extremely uncomfort, (I used to use it)but when they learn the reasons to use it in they favor, they change attitudes and doing the right thing. I was a worker without any training and today I doing it in favor of any worker!!! Fines and jail term is right for people, and treated as criminal…what about some workers died doing they jobs? what about polluting sewers or rivers? Fines cost more in the long run and jail terms for the infractors, is right to do it. You committed a violation, you must face the true. No matter the position or who they are. Rules and regulations are only to follow and taken in care… is coming sense, nothing wrong with that!

43. Michael Says:
    May 11th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    It’s real simple…..ABOLISH OSHA!!! I don’t need anyone telling me what safety equipment to wear (including the Government ala seat belts in MY car). If I get injured or killed on the job because I had an ACCIDENT or I screwed up it should be on me. No one has ever held a gun to my head and forced me to work somewhere……give me a break!

44. Robert Says:
    May 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Michael,

    It’s people like you that OSHA was established in the first place.

    An injury or death on your part doesn’t just affect you. It affects your place of employment financially in many ways. It also affects your family at home, when they have to do the the responsibilities that were originally yours.

    Furthermore, eliminating OSHA all together would mean that companies will cut corners everywhere that safety is concerned. NO eye protection would be supplied. No forklift training would take place. No machinery would be properly guarded.

    I think you should rethink your position and give everyone else a break.

45. Gordy Adams - HBTC Says:
    May 14th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    In our training classes we challenge our students to watch out for their own “piece of equipment” – i.e. themselves. When a shovel, a back hoe or a sling wears out beyond being able to be repaired it is discarded and like these tools and equipment, we wear out too. If you don’t take care of yourself (your own piece of equipment) you suffer the consequences.

    Unfortunately lessons are sometimes learned the hard way. We ask the youngsters and the “veterans” how they get out of pick up truck and obviously get two opposite responses – jumping out or crawling out very slowly.

    OSHA was formed because some companies thought their employees were expendable and also because some workers are too dumb to figure out that if it feels or smells bad then it probably isn’t good for you so you should look out for your own health and safety and ask questions – thus MSDS.

    I can tell you horror story after story. Like the student in a class who’s brother in law had the guard wedged up on a portable circular saw who was going down to trim deck boards while the other was about to stand up after picking up tools underneath the deck and had the saw buried into his head requiring 180 stitches. We see two extension ladders duct taped together, personal fall arrest systems tied off with bent over nails – oh and how about the OSHA standard 1926.153(b) – “Welding is prohibited on (LP-Gas) containers.” They had to make a law or rule because someone tried to do it and most likely blew him self up! Sorry I can’t help you with dumb and stupid but if you need training I can help.

    Our legal system has a lot to do with rules too. Read every operator’s manual for every tool or the label on any box of nails and it will require you to wear safety glasses – “common sense” – apparently not. Someone didn’t wear proper eye protections and look out for their own safety – their own piece of equipment and lost an eye and was told they deserve some money and sued. Self accountability – what a novel idea in today’s society. As the Eagles say “Get over it…”

    Companies are in business to make money which creates jobs. Foreman have better things to do than walk around job sites and tell people to wear hard hats and safety glasses so we have to make it a rule on job sites. Budgets, schedules, quality and safety are all part of the process.

    If a person doesn’t abide by the rules at my house – they are not invited back – simple as that. Job site rules to get the job done good, fast, on time and SAFE.

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