Comments on: 6 proposed OSHA reforms: Do you agree or disagree?

By: Chuck Woodings

Chuck Woodings — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:55:06 +0000

I find the proposals in this article are totally in line with the present attitude of the liberal leadership of this country. I have been in construction safety for the last 20 years and if the government really wanted to improve safety they would first of all mandate more training and then all the employer to fine the employee if the safety rules were not obeyed. This could enable the employer to support his training program and place the responsibility for safety back on the employee. The employee is the one most responsible for his own safety in almost all cases. There are some true accidents where the employee has done everything correct and either through mechanical failure or material failure an accident occurs. If in the case of mechanical failure then OSHA should step in and investigate thoroughly all the causes of the accident and fine all those responsible for the incident including the worker who perhaps didn’t follow all the proper procedures.

To critique further this article, I don’t think the writer has ever really worked or paid close attention to how people work. If a worker has found that he can get away with a short cut, then this become the STOP from then on. I realize this whole idea of putting the responsibility for following safe working procedures back on the employee’s head is contrary to the pop culture of today, it would reduce accidents infinitely, provided the employer trained them sufficiently. That would be the second catch to this idea, but this is where OSHA would have the responsibility to hold the employer to the task of training their employees.

By: Mark

Mark — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:53:33 +0000

I agree with the premise of better funding to OSHA.
With the penalty being proposed, who would be held responsible. I have worked for quite a few different companies over the years and I will tell you that the low guy on the ladder is usually thrown under the bus when things go bad. In this case it would be the Safety Manager for it is his or her responsibility to make sure that sites are as safe as humanly possibly even if the Company supports you or not. With that said you have stated that most companies don’t want to think or support safety until someone is hurt and then fines start mounting up.
I don’t agree with giving OSHA or any agency the right to change rules and regulations without some group evaluating these changes, so as to make it obtainable for the various corporations to comply within a reasonable time frame before fining them into closure.
I have been working as a safety coordinator in the Mill Working industry for 6 years now and I have seen many different companies and how they rationalize why they are not safer.

By: Kenneth

Kenneth — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:54:25 +0000

One of the biggest problem with OSHA has been the fact that in the last five years there has been five different Acting Assist Secretaries. So when the cat is out the mice come out to play, taken advantage of this lack of leadership and doing what they want.

By: Pat Rhea

Pat Rhea — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:16:00 +0000

Budget – fine. But define needs. The vast majority of federal government agencies get a ton of money and produce little.
Legislation – bad idea. Lord knows we have enough poorly written laws and regs now. Remember the Ergonomics Standard in 2000? I have no complaints about rules and regs being put in place to keep my workers safe, but any more like the ERGO Standard we don not need. It was, at best, poorly written and researched, and extremely difficult for companies to implement, especially the backbone of our country, the small business owner. OSHA, keep your pens in your pocket!
Keep the State programs! These folks are at least aware of the need for common sense and in 26 years of being in the SHE arena they are so much easier to work with than the feds.
» I think OSHA should focus more on helping companies get it right. Yes, those that willfully ignore the laws need to be punished and increasing fines might do it. But again, where does common sense come in to play and where do the OSHA folks draw the line on ‘Serious’ and ‘Other’ fines. Right now it is so subjective.
National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) generally has the stricter of the two standards and most of us will always go the safest route possible.
Statistics: How in the world are they going to do that? I send my reports annually but there is nothing to keep me from falsifing the report other than my own personal ethics.
Finally – there is a lot of talk about unions in the early comments. I have had the pleasure (with sarcasm) of working union and non-union sites. The only positive thing that have to say about the unions is that most of them have tons of up-to-date SHE material available for use on the jobs. Other than that, keep them out of my hair. I can get the job completed just as safe, faster, and with much less headaches in a non-union shop.

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:28:13 +0000

The postings to date serve as proof of divercity and uniqueness of each safety professional and their respective experience and industry. One must respect the others point of view at some level. On another leve one has to appreciate how painting answers with one single broad brush is not going to work for quite a few of us. Some industries are very linear and standardized as compared to others. A good segment of industry includes companies working new and developing technologies which are 90% R&D and 10% standardized production. The DOL is doing what it can to provide what the BLS is indicating and political channels will allow. Three words from the last sentence should explain my point; DOL, BLS, politics. If the rules or science applied by these three proved to be without flaw, then I’d expect they would be fit to govern every industry regardless. Would anyone argue that this is the case? I’d think not. Therfore the challenges presented in these responses all have a level of merit but those who blanket the issues with over simplified common sensical examples lack either the experience and or exposure to the whole picutre and I’d caution how one considers such responses in a forum like this. Because of our flawed system, best to accept it as a price of doing business, but not disregard the value of challenging the system where appropriate. The difference is leading and following. Followers are comfortable haveing someone tell them what and how to do things. Leaders will follow where it makes sense, and challenge the system where there is opportunity to improve, even when taking arrows in the back. Less we forget, Globalization throughout most industry is born and maturing at a rapid rate. With or without the U.S. competetion will only reward the winner. If one side is encourged and allowed to cheat to win and another is strangled and isolated from competiion all together, the loser is easy to find. The losers then disappear as do all the jobs that it provided. This is one opinion.

By: James Farrell

James Farrell — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:11:51 +0000

Let’s try to simplify a little bit of what we are tlking about here!
Let’s compare an OSHA regulation to a STOP SIGN, if you stop at a stop sign and than proceed when it is safe you are less likely to get broadsided by another car. If you do get broadsided by another car than they more than likely ignored the stop sign… much like many company’s and many individual’s ignore the standard’s. If it were not for ignorance and stupidity we wouldnt need OSHA or standards.
With no fomal training, advanced education or background in safety I have managed to take a high risk company from an E-MOD rating of 1.37 down to a .82 with 0 lost time accidents in the last 17 months with 150 employees in right around three years by simply reading and following the OSHA regs, and implimenting OSHA’S consultation program so the excuse of high insurance prices higher construction cost’s is really just that, an excuse!
It takes less time to do something right than it does to do it wrong!
Every single year Grant money is handed by the Labor Commission and Federal government for workplace safety.
They will pay you to get compliant it just takes a little effort on your part!
I am a firm believer that it is laziness and ignorance that causes the majority of lost time accidents.
S for the Unions… The Union leaders are put in place by the Union Worker!
It you want to see changes put the right people in place to do the job!

By: Keith

Keith — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:34:04 +0000

We already have regulations that cover everything from what to wear to how to wipe your butt. The awful truth is that people will make bad decisions no matter how much training and safety material you give them and if you look at almost all construction accidents it was caused by human error and a lot of those by persons who had the highest training and experience. Workers will sometimes take shortcuts which cause an accident or injury, so until some miracle pill is developed that does away with human error more regulations and persecution of companies will have little or no effect except driving up the cost of construction projects and employees. Insurance companies now have more of an impact on safety since the threat of lawsuits and large judgments are a major concern and if you want to stay in business you need insurance and insurance companies do not want unsafe clients.
Yes, management must implement, promote and practice safety for it to be effective but for some reason the unions seem to be insulated from liability due to the acts of their members, but the employer is not. Go figure.

By: Guy Newport

Guy Newport — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 15:57:44 +0000

If I’m echoing someone else’s comments please excuse me but I believe the one factor that makes all the difference in the organizational culture is the attitude of management and supervisors regarding Safety. If they’re behind it, it’ll happen. No amount of regulation, union bashing or finger pointing at the workers will make as big a difference as a commitment to Safety from the top of the organization. It’s not the external forces that make a change in organizational culture, it’s what’s done on the inside of that organization that makes the difference.
I might have been one of those that advocated for more regulations in the past but not any longer. If there’s more regulations, they need to focus on organizational change not the individual program details.
Since it’s been proven that a culture supporting Safety is good for the bottom line, here’s a hint at the leverage that works: the cost of insurance. If the cost of doing business becomes so expensive when workers are injured, then companies will find a way to prevent that from occurring. Of course, that only works if any one particular state’s Workers Compensation program acts responsibly and insures justice for injured workers but that’s another kettle of fish entirely.

By: Cindy

Cindy — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:56:36 +0000

Very interesting comments submitted. I work for a union company and training is now performed at the Journeyman/Apprentice Training Center as well as on-the-job. We have noticed a significant decrease (50%) in the frequency and severity of our Work Comp claims. The union also introduced drug testing which I believe had an impact as well. Our company provides bonuses based upon a foreman’s job profit, safety record and foreman training. My foremen (100 of them) are calling to come and look at their jobs to see if we can make them safer. They used to treat me like the INS “Run Forrest Run”. Our company used to be “Good Ole’ Boy” and now after 11 long years, our culture has changed and safety training is paying off big time! Our premiums are the lowest and we are a California based company. We save so much on our premiums, GL, PD, WC, etc. that me, my other field rep and our safety budget is “free” and I do not scrimp on supplies or training time. I would be interested in hearing what is working well for other companies. I could use some more money saving safety ideas. Robots are no fun….they can’t tell good jokes….

By: Patrick Stimpson

Patrick Stimpson — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:12:57 +0000

Jeff, You nailed it right on the head! I have been trying to say that all week.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:54:04 +0000

If a company or manager simply ignores the OSHA regs they should be cited by OSHA and if neglagence can be proven, OSHA should be able to file criminal charges. Many companies and managers look at OSHA as a fly in the ointment. They deal with them if and when they have to. These companies and managers need to understand that failing to follow the OSHA regs is a CRIME, and if someone were to be killed due to negligence, that manager should face criminal charges just as if he had ended that persons life with his own hand. If a manager understands he / she is likely to lose their house in order to pay prosecution costs and fines, or could spend 5 to 10 years in prison, they would think twice before putting people in harms way. If on the other hand, a company or manager has an associate suffer an injury because he / she failed to follow established (documented) safety protocol, OSHA should fine the individual not the company. Workers will be a lot less likely to “forget” to use proper PPE if not doing so hits them in the wallet. How about this, injured because of your own negligence….no workmans comp. People need to be treated as adults, if you get caught speeding, you get a ticket………Don’t use PPE and get hurt……..you should get a ticket, not a paid vacation sitting home on the couch.

By: James Farrell

James Farrell — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:07:48 +0000

I had to comment after reading Stan and Patrick’s input to this blog! Gentleman let’s not forget that we are talking about employee’s, in an industry that has turned to “production”. These are not journeyman or craftsman like we saw in the 50’s and 60’s and 70’s they are the replacement’s who work for lower wages (as compared to the cost of living) who just put in thier time and do only what is required to get the job done.
They don’t care if the company is fined. They don’t look to the future and see what is happening to the economy they only see as far ahead as next friday’s paycheck.
Until they are handed that final paycheck or a pink slip the rules and polocies are nothing more than a hoop to jump through before they start drawing that weekly paycheck!

By: Patrick Stimpson

Patrick Stimpson — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:12:06 +0000

I agree with Stanthesafetyman to a point. There are lots and lots of great companies and even more great safety supervisors out there. They can only do so much, given the attitude of the general workforce these days. I would love to see OSHA hold the employee fully accountable if the safety equipment and training have been done properly.

There is, however, a certain undesirable element in all industries that I believe the is being addressed by this discussion. I have encountered or read about companies, supervisors, safety supervisors, etc who simply don’t give a **#* about their employees. They don’t want to spend money, or time to keep them safe, and as long as they keep dodging the bullet they will not care. For these few companies, I think the enforcement needs to be so scary as to make them think.

I hear everyone’s concern about good people getting popped, and I am concerned too. Perhaps the answer is for the rule to define ‘willful, careless negligence for the safety and health of workers’ in a way that does not include supervisors etc, who are doing all they can with a poor work pool.

By: stanthesafetyman

stanthesafetyman — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:20:30 +0000

Ive been involved with occupational safety and health for 15 years and in the construction industry another 15 years. Ive seen thousands of jobsites for GC’s and sub’s. If you ask me the two things you must have to maintain safe jobsites, safe tools, and safe equipment, are the two things that have been missing from the work force for about the last two decades. Those two things are respect and pride. Without these two things, no matter how much money you spend, no matter how much you theaten, no matter how much the cost of material goes down (which is not likely), you will not change whats happening with the work force today. We have lost as many workers in the last 20 years as we have in all the wars in US history put together. What can we do you ask ? The previous safety geeks think they have the answer but the truth is, what has gone wrong is beyond our control and there is no fix. I for one enjoy the job security, but dont get me wrong, I do care about workers safety and believe me Ive given thousands of hours of safety training. All we are left with is to manage the workers we get, and create paper trails to CYA. So if you want to enrich your selves by sucking up more salary then you deserve by selling some crap about how to fix things, then answer this. If you can make a differance then why havent you already ? Keep making safety a political thing and watch men continue to die.

By: Safety Guy

Safety Guy — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:42:38 +0000

I have enjoyed all the comments. I do think that OSHA needs a change of direction to continue to help businesses maintain and expand safety for their employees. I have been involved in the Oregon OSHA SHARP and it is a great program that OSHA has put together. It requires mush less documentation and BS work than OSHA’s VPP and it creates a great working relationship with business and OSHA. They are there to help not just fine and punish. It also shows employees that management and OSHA both care. VPP is also a great program, there are just a bunch of hoops to jump through. I really believe that OSHA needs to expand on these programs, and if they need more resources to do that then i am all for it. If the changes are only there to help them with enforcement then i think it is a step backwards.

On a side note, the safer the workplace the more productive it really is. If a place is dirty and messy then it requires extra effort just to work around the mess. If an employee gets hurt then someone with less experience and training will have to take over while they are out and it will slow production, possibly hurt product quality because they may make mistakes, and put them at greater risk of injury simply because they are unfamiliar with equipment and processes.

So to Milo, think about that last comment before you rant.

By: Cheri

Cheri — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:37:43 +0000

We have ruled and regulated our society right into a major recession, we can not compete with other countries in free trade, no one else has all the rules and regs and costs associated with them, that we do, so how do we continue to grow our economy under the current rules and regs?

By: Vince

Vince — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:03:24 +0000

This person has it EXACTLY RIGHT!

“SarahJo: December 8th, 2008 at 4:38 pm ”

I love you SarahJo! Run for President! Please!

By: Safety Manager

Safety Manager — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:19:22 +0000

I love reading all these comments from real safety people who understand how hard it is to do our jobs. It is especially hard for me to be sympathetic to employees for getting hurt. I can spend a couple of hours training them, I know they understand, they sign a verification form, and then then next day I see them doing exactly what I told them not to do. For example, jump off of a ladder rather than climb down. Then when they get hurt they take advantage of the workers comp system and spend 6 months at home on the couch saying their back hurts. I live in Las Vegas and am a Safety Manager at a Hotel Casino. I enforce/comply with both OSHA General Industry and Construction standards. I have a great working relationship with NV OSHA Enforcement and Consultation. There is a former Safety Director in Las Vegas who was fired for not doing his job and an almost out of business safety consulting firm who is giving Alexandra at the Las Vegas Sun her mis-information. It would be really great if all of you knowledgable safety people could occasionally go to http://www.lasvegassun.com and read the bad articles written by Alexendra and leave your comments correcting her.

By: Kevin Temple

Kevin Temple — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:16:31 +0000

The reporters opinion to strip away established programs and quickly develop new ones is a formula to increase, job related deaths and injuries, not reduce. OSHA has made significant improvements in the safety and health of workers in the United States and no article or reporter can dispute the overall reduction of fatalities and serious injuries since the implementation of the Williams-Steiger Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970. The biggest challenge is trying to change a culture of workers and employers that think safety is an unattainable goal, reduces production and therefore reduces profit, so one should do nothing rather than continuously develop and improve policies and behaviors that will ultimately do just the opposite. Maybe the reporter should try to save one star fish at a time rather than criticize the entire Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Admistration for the thousands washed up on the beach.

By: James Farrell

James Farrell — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:07:44 +0000

I do wish as do several of you out there also that OSHA citations could be handed out directly to individuals. But the problem there lies in the substantial cost of than recovering that money. It would overwhelm the court systems and result in countless hours of paperwork and man hours.
We as a company at this point are trying to find a loophole in the laws that would allow us to fine our employees for each violation whether it be hardhat violations, safety glasses or fall protection. We have considered having all moneys donated to charity or to funds set up for families of individuals who have died in industrial accidents but as of yet have not been able to get the labor commission to buy into it!

By: Chuck Woodings

Chuck Woodings — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:02:16 +0000

I’m sorry that I pushed submit twice above but I read the 6 suggestions and then immediately jumped the the bottom and put my thoughts down. I have since read almost all of the comments and it is very gratifying to me to have so many other safety professionals state the same thought that more responsibility needs to be placed on the worker doing his part. I really liked the idea of making safety a self rewarding goal by the government providing tax breaks or similar for companies improving their safety or maintaining good safety records. There are many very valid comments above and it was a pleasure to read them. I have been in safety since 1981, and this has been our most successful year.

By: Chuck Woodings

Chuck Woodings — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:18:06 +0000

As a Safety man myself, My one suggestion to actually improve safety would be to improve training in all trades and then once an individual has been trained if he violates a safety rule, he should be the one to get fined, not the employer. We can spend all day training, and yet it only takes one second to violate a safety rule and someone is killed, either the individual who makes the error or an innocent bystander. I’ve suggested this to an OHSHA man and he almost got angry at even the thought of it. The fines wouldn’t need to be very large unless the individual was a consistent violator and then the fines should be progressive. It still comes down to how much risk is an individual willing to take and some people like living on the edge and don’t care.

I do recognize the need for OSHA to go after companies that are not providing adequate training, and there are a lot of these I think, reviewing the accidents that occur as I have done. Too many people are doing dumb things and they need to receive more training but I still maintain that once they are trained they should be the ones paying the fines.

I’m sure this will bring a lot of adverse comments, but why do we take shortcuts, why do we violate safety rules when they are for our protection. We certainly wouldn’t jump out of an airplane without a parachute on, and yet we see people daily that have been properly taught and yet choose to take the shortcut just because it has worked for them before.

The money paid in fines or that would be paid in fines could be far better spent training workers to do their jobs safely. In order for a person of group of people to go into business, perhaps they should have to submit training programs to OSHA or some responsible unit to get a business license. If this were the case, then OSHA’s job would be to follow up and be sure that the businesses were doing this training.

All this might work in the ideal world, but we know that there is always someone who is willing to overlook things for considerations, as all the current publicity shows.

By: Chuck Woodings

Chuck Woodings — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:59:06 +0000

As a Safety man myself, My one suggestion to actually improve safety would be to improve training in all trades and then once an individual has been trained if he violates a safety rule, he should be the one to get fined, not the employer. We can spend all day training, and yet it only takes one second to violate a safety rule and someone is killed, either the individual who makes the error and an innocent bystander. I’ve suggested this to an OHSHA man and he almost got angry at even the thought of it. The fines wouldn’t need to be very large unless the individual was a consistent violator and then the fines should be progressive. It still comes down to how much risk is an individual willing to take and some people like living on the edge and don’t care.

All this might work in the ideal world, but we know that there is always someone who is willing to overlook things for considerations, as all the current publicity shows.

By: Guido

Guido — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:58:41 +0000

All this is so very interesting. I was a Safety Manager at a Kansas meat packng plant, when a 62-year-old maintenance mechanic fell off a high bench, and consequently died the next day from the head trauma. He was to retire in a few months. His supervisor didn’t seem to think fall protection was required because it was only six feet to the floor. Oh yes, the company was fined a whopping $2500, Needless to say the fine was inconsequential compared to the loss and tragedy to his family. My intent was to fire the supervisor for blatant disregard for safety regulations. All training and confirmation of knowledge was in place and recorded.

To make a long story shorter, the company “eliminated” my job and I was out on the street. And what did they do? They brought back the previous Safety Manager who took another position with another company, and who was in the pocket of upper plant management, and corporate owners in the company that I replaced him. Seems it was the ‘good ol’ boy approach.’ Don’t make waves.

The only thing I will say at this time is that OSHA needs more TEETH in its organization. It needs to be in a position to bring, or minimally recommend criminal charges against those companies, and company employee management and supervisory personnel who blatantly disregard safety regulations.

It’s truly amazing, because this same company had six fatalities on two different occasions in prior years. Where does it end?

Please forgive my language here, but the Federal Government, Congress, and OSHA need to shit or get off the pot. Either they are going to be a regulatory agency or they are not, and if they are, they need to start aggressively enforcing regulations, and fining the hell out of the companies that think they are above the law.

The memory of that fatality still lingers in my mind – 12-years after the fact.

By: milo

milo — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:25:49 +0000

To safety Dave you said “For the nay sayers of safety requirements, try explaining to a workers family in the emergency room why their loved one has been injured because the owner or organization was too cheap to do the job correctly or hired illegals because they would not second guess an order from a superior.”

Actually Dave, as a plant manager I ‘ve only had go talk to families twice. Both times the “loved One” got to explain to his family how they had “taken a shortcut, not followed the procedure and thought they could get away with it.” I looked their loved ones in the eyes with dignity andwe both knew how their loved one’s decision was made…

I run a program where I say what I mean and mean what I say.
I’m sorry that in your shop or the shops you speak of they are “too cheap to do the job correctly and hiring illegals,” because that crap don’t fly in mine.

milo

By: Don Mays

Don Mays — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:17:07 +0000

It always sounds great to state we have enough laws but the fact of the matter is, many OSHA standards have not kept up with changes in the workplace. For example in construction, Mast Climbing Work Platform regulations are years behind the equipment. Also I agree with the willful violation changes as many employers do not feel the monetary or legal need to comply with standards as it cheaper in their minds to just pay the fine. Many of the employers I have dealt with do not train employee’s according to OSHA requirements but have them sign training attendance sheets after talking about safety for a few minutes after coffee break. The employee is then not truly trained. I agree with many of the proposed changes at least in part. Some may need tweaked, but changes are needed in many area’s of the standards to make them more effective. Addressing OSHA’s obvious lack of funding and authority to shut down an unsafe jobsite is a good place to start.

By: Jerry

Jerry — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:46:57 +0000

There are enough laws on the books. Some people will not wear the proper equipment or take the time to use the proper tool unless they see a supervisor or the safety person coming.

We need thing to help us stimulate people to do what is right.

More rules and paper work is not what is needed with all the down sizing of companies
Small companies have to struggle with doing all the paper work and training or getting the customer taken care of that generates our business.

By: Tara Hart

Tara Hart — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:39:02 +0000

The Sun has the problem right, but Alexandra’s presumed cause and solutions are all wrong.

Does that reporter do better work when under constant threat of severe, even criminal, penalty?

What does motivate people to have constantly improving processes?

Rewards. And that’s the problem. OSHA is rewarded for significant cases and large fines. This is a fact. Therefore, OSHA cannot be “rewarded” if there are no deaths, no serious injuries, or no large jobsites getting “nailed”. According to a senior, retired, DOL official, Regional Area Directors have no incentive for safer jobsites but, in the exact words of this official, “Quite the opposite.” OSHA is NOT held accountable for the number of deaths in their region. If there are 1000 deaths in their region, no problem, AS LONG AS they bring in SIGNIFICANT CASES AND BIG FINES.

This has led to an abuse of power where fraudulent and frivolous citations are issued, employers are abused via the administrative legal process (and it is not uncommon that the ALJs ==Administrative Law Judges, Solicitor, and OSHA work together to make sure the employers are abused since the ALJs, Solicitor, and OSHA are all on the DOL’s payroll).

In the meantime, the song, “There’s a Tyrant Down in Texas” is out there on the web (see the song’s website, mentioned earlier http://www.TyrantofTexas.com“) and it specifically speaks to one case of what certainly appears to be at least, questionable conduct and, at worse, criminal acts by OSHA against at least one innocent employer. As this case unfolds, I would not be surprised to see many innocent employers arise from this case. The witness intimidation is documented and the signed declaration of the lead CSHO states that his superior deliberately used staged photographs to issue citations.

This is not an Agency that needs MORE power. This is an Agency that needs more ACCOUNTABILITY.

Reward and acknowledge OSHA for fewer fatalities, not more fines. Hold OSHA accountable for its own failure to visit sites where workers are dying in favor of targeting the large, lucrative sites (and targeting their own “partners”). Now, this would lead to improvements.

But allowing an Agency already out of control to go on a McCarthy’ism or Salem-type witch hunt paralyzing industry, shutting down jobs, and trying to crush employers (and thus crush the economic infrastructure of the employees OSHA is supposedly serving) is NOT a very good idea.

Alexandra means well. She just needs to do a bit more research with people who have experience, evidence, and effective ideas on solutions before she finishes her series. Something this important should not gain momentum from a generalist’s editorial series and the resulting rumor mill. It should also not be a biased, unbalanced piece that promotes only the agenda of those who stand to profit politically, professionally, or economically from such poorly thought out “solutions”.

Let’s shut down The Sun for journalistic wrecklessness and criminally prosecute the journalist for taking so much license with her op-ed piece. Will that make her a better writer or The Sun a more accountable newspaper? I think not. But it would make newspapers and journalists afraid to be in business.

The worker death rate is a multi-pronged problem that needs a multi-pronged solution. OSHA is in SERIOUS NEED of reform at both the operational and citation contest level. Insurance AND OSHA need to keep their leading indicators (EMR & TRIR) out of the industry’s bidding processes since both are typically based upon meaningless numbers that have nothing to do with reality (as clearly stated in the language of every OSHA settlement agreement). Further, Owners need an accountability incentive so that they determine short list on safety culture first (not TRIR or EMR–these numbers do not represent culture) and price second. IF the government incentivized Owners with safety they way they did with drug programs, workplaces would be safer.

If Alexandra’s “call for 6 possible solutions” were to actually manifest, it would be the worst thing that could ever happen to industry and it would not serve the integrity of OSHA either…it would fuel OSHA’s escalating abuse of power. OSHA is not unlike the FDIC in that Judge Hughes’ ruling in the Hurwitz case called the FDIC “A corrupt agency operating under corrupt influences…” and OSHA appears to be running neck in neck with the FDIC for the same distinction.

However, if Alexandra’s correct identification of the real problem—no meaningful decline in worker deaths—morphs into an objective and unbiased analysis of causes and possible solutions, her series could still have a wonderful outcome.

Industry leaders in partnership with my firm are currently planning a roundtable in Houston that is going to be a public forum to discuss the escalating power abuse by some OSHA officials, the unfair and unethical abuse of the legal process by OSHA and its representatives (i.e. the solicitor and some ALJs), and the “changeling” that the construction industry “partnership” has morphed into. Current OSHA officials will be invited but very prominent, high ranking DOL officials who are only recently retired have agreed to participate in the roundtable as well–and their position is not supportive of many of OSHA’s current practices.

Are there any other cities out there who would like to join us? Perhaps we could even find a way to televise it?

I’d be happy to hear from anyone who wants more information from us on the questionable conduct of Region 6 OSHA officials, on the roundtable, or on our ideas about possible solutions that could work and should be seriously considered in lieu of those being bantered about right now.

We have also formed a national coalition of safety consultants that is launching from Houston. Membership is free to all interested parties and is open to any one supporting our purpose. Our purpose is to share our experiences in contesting OSHA citations so that we may all learn from each other’s experiences while we shed light on OSHA’s practices in this arena. OSHA can only continue to abuse power if they continue to operate in secret, which, by and large, they do. The average employer is in a vacuum, one on one with OSHA and has no recourse to bring OSHA’s treatment of them to the public eye. Also, it is economically infeasible for the typical construction industry contractor to get justice inside the system since the DOL is stacked against them. The current citation process is like having a rape victim (American employer) file her complaint for the rape with the rapist (OSHA), and then have her complaint met with a lawsuit filed against her by the rapist’s attorney (the Solicitor). She then must spend lots of money to defend this lawsuit that attacks her for reporting the rape and she must hope for a fair hearing from a Judge that is on the rapist’s payroll. You do the math.

Further, the coalition’s forum for sharing information will allow us all to better serve our clients in representation of OSHA cases and to support industry in its pursuit, if any, of changes to OSHA citation contest process.

Please feel free to contact me.

Tara Hart, CEO
TCA/The Compliance Alliance
Houston, Texas
713.263.7661

By: James Farrell

James Farrell — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:36:31 +0000

I agree with the comments following my first, to a point that is where we as employers have to take responsibility. If employees are not following the rules write them up, document it if they repeat suspend them. If they repeat again FIRE THEM it will open the eyes of your other employees and show OSHA you afre enforcing the rules.
There will be no budget increases with the “Democrat’s” in charge only cuts which means those cuts will be in consultation and the resources which are there to help us to educate our employees.
Which means once OSHA shows up and finds a violation there will be fines… and than the companies policies will be reviewed and if the right ones are not in place than there will be more fines.
My advice is to contact consultation while they still exist and do a review and make sure the correct policies are in place and than it will be up to us to police ourselves.
And as far as 90% of accidents occuring when something out of the ordinary occurs I STRONGLY DISAGREE, not following rules, regulations, policies and flat out not paying attention is not out of the ordinary it is plain ignorance! And that is where 90% of accidents in the construction industry come from!

By: Jake H.

Jake H. — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:12:41 +0000

OSHA does not need a budget increase. They should be held responsible for their sometimes needless and careless spending. We all want our employees to go home safe everyday, but until we hold the emploee/s accountable for unsafe actions, we will get nowhere. Like children, when they are not watched, they do foolish things. 90% of all workplace injuries occur when something out of the ordinary occurs. This means that employees are not following their training or the safety rules. And the injured worker/s is so well protected by OSHA that you can’t punish them, but instead you have to offer them a light duty task and drive your costs up even higher. At the rate we are heading, employers will have to pay higher worker comp rates ( in WA L & I is our ins.) and deal with more injury claims due to our “system.” Hold both parties responsible and you will see results.

By: Tom Roland

Tom Roland — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:57:33 +0000

OSHA seems to make a mint in fines but without knowing their exact budget it is hard to really know. I hear them complain that there is little to go around. One of their programs on the Insurance side “OSH-CON” is a great avenue to work with the government and have a safe workplace without having the dog biting at the door. I know that my company has worked with this entity and found them very helpful and useful. I would like to see more publication on this program and funding pushed this direction.

By: Steve

Steve — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:43:18 +0000

Here we go again….knee-jerk reaction. I am all for the protection of employees and providing the best safety equipment and training. But we have to stop creating programs that exceed what we ACTUALLY do in each individual business. It causes us to manage paper trail nightmares, creates legal liability for contractors with the multitudes of interpretations, and causes confusion among our employees under the load of regulations that can not always be strictly adhered to in real world situations. I have managed excellent safety programs with high employee awareness and strong safety culture but everytime the OSHA inspector steps on a project site, we get treated as if we do nothing to support and promote safety. Fact – construction is inherently dangerous. This is not to say that it is OK for people to be injured or die. It is just to say that there is an amount of risk that no government agency can cause to disappear. I did not go to school to learn safety. I started out in construction 30 years ago and have worked in general, mechanical, marine and commercial diving, and general contracting. THEN I went back to school. I would not trade my experience for my two college degrees. Experience reveals the real world. You cannot be realistic about construcion safety unless you have experienced the environment. With experience, you will learn that you cannot promote safety by strict adherence to a book supported by punishment. The book is an excellent guideline and training resource. But get into the real world. A contractor either has a safety culture or not. Stop penalizing the ones that are supporting safety by using the same shotgun approach that should be aimed at the reckless ones. Teach, train, provide the best safety equipment, create a culture, build a team. You will look at your accomplishments and wonder why you ever thought that enforcement would work.

By: William Saftman

William Saftman — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:46:00 +0000

OSHA underfunded huh, now you know how we industrial safety folks feel right ?
Do more with less, but don’t get anyone hurt seems to be the norm in what industry we have left in this country. It is high time individuals are held accountable for their personal safety and we become less dependent on the big “O” for policing safety programs in America. We have the rules it’s time we all start abiding by them.

By: James Farrell

James Farrell — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:52:28 +0000

As a “Safety Manager” the most effective tool I have found is the OSHA consultation program. With the current problems facing this country that will likely be the first place that cuts will be made if the budget problems are not addressed.
I strongly agree that the statistics published are not accurate. With “First-aid only injuries being allowed to be paid by employers and not reportable this could effect those numbers by at least 30%.
By taking an active and aggressive stand and partnering with OSHA to prevent lost time accidents I have been able to take my companies emod from a 1.37 to a .83 in less than five years.
And on another note I have found that the employers who dislike OSHA the most and have so many negative comments concerning them are generally the ones who need them the most! Or at least thier employees do!

By: Bob Vernon

Bob Vernon — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:30:20 +0000

I am not impressed with the suggested actions.
The data presented does not provide a long term view of safety in the USA. She hasn’t differentiated between statistics prior to OSHA nor improvements in safety since OSHA was enacted. Readers are unable to determine what the “marginal effect” of additional regulations would be.
The author also seems to favor the “stick” rather than the “carrot” with regard to compliance. No mention of “VPP” or other participatory “partnership” initiatives or their effectiveness.
Reads like a “hit” job as pointed out in other comments.
However, the comments made by many readers indicate challenges with training that seem to be universal among safety professionals. The pressures of making room in operating budgets for “non-revenue” generating costs in an economy where competition is tough, makes dollars for training materials and teachers as well as “lost productive hours” on the part of employees problematic for management. Often times Management does not appreciate the “value” the cost of safety training until there is a serious accident because serious accidents for individual companies occur occasionally, but the management of overhead budgets are a daily factor.
Suggestion, why not tie standard safety metrics to tax breaks for companies. In effect this would allow employers to allocate safety training costs to an opportunity for reduced taxes. Companies claim the tax break would have to be able to demonstrate excellence or dramatic improvement in saety performance. That woudl be a “win-win” for employers as well as employees and OSHA.